Big Trouble

The NY Times has an interesting article about translating the Koran. Apparently the literal word of God contains lots of words with multiple meanings. A good example is Chapter 4, Verse 34. According to the NY Times, “The verse says that a rebellious woman should first be admonished, then abandoned in bed, and ultimately “beaten” — the most common translation for the Arabic word “daraba” — unless her behavior improves.”

What about those other translations for “daraba”?

The story explains “There are at least 20 English translations of the Koran. “Daraba” has been translated as beat, hit, strike, scourge, chastise, flog, make an example of, spank, pet, tap and even seduce.”

You can see the big problem here: A good number of wives might enjoy being spanked, petted, tapped and even seduced. If any of those last four definitions are the ones Allah intended, it means big trouble for Muslim men. You’re going to get a lot of this:

Wife: “Hey, Abdul, I spray painted the Star of David on your Mercedes because I’m rebellious! Now God says you have to seduce me! I like chocolate!”

I think we can all agree that the funniest translation of “daraba” is tap. I can imagine the conversation between a Muslim man and his spiritual leaders:

Man “My wife gave away my golf clubs. What should I do?”

Spiritual Leader: “Dude, you gotta go home and tap that.”

After reading about the Koran’s multiple translation problems, I started wondering if the Islamic terrorists might be misinterpreting the Koran. Perhaps the holy book doesn’t say to kill the infidels at all. Perhaps the Arab word for kill has lots of other interpretations including idolize, adore, wax their backs, fellate, and sell oil below cost. Maybe the terrorists just picked the easiest one.

This gives me a good idea on how to stop terrorism. All we have to do is print about 10 billion Korans with one or two words about the infidels altered, list some famous Islamic scholar as the publisher, assassinate him so he can’t talk, and give away the books for free. It will take a while for anyone to notice the few altered words and get the word out. By then it will be too late. The altered Korans will outnumber the correct ones, and in time the more common interpretation will seem right. In this future world, the biggest complaint that infidels will have about Islamic terrorists will be “He was nice, but his beard tickled, if you know what I mean.”

Here’s a link to the NY Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/25/us/25koran.html

Comments

[Zencat]

All religions tend to ascribe divine origin to their
ancient texts, somehow blurring their eyes when queried about the issues of translation and interpretation down through the ages, therefore subject to the limits of the understanding, political motives, and bias of the various scribes. Clearly the true Source of all consciousness transcends all and any word ever written on this tiny orb in our minute traverse through the majesty of the Infinite.
Best,

Zencat
http://www.buddhasbox.com

[SillyString]

"over time, the true meaning of the qoran has been diluted. but you shouldn't make fun of another religion's holy book."

Could you please explain why? If said book has stuff in it that begs to be called out for its innanity, Scott should just ignore it so YOU feel better?

Why do the religious always think that their "beliefs" have to be "respected"? The Xenu of Scientology is not respectable. Muhammad flying to the moon on a pegasus isn't respectable. Jesus coming back as a zombie isn't respectable. It's all fanciful claptrap - unless you have some evidence that of veracity for these claims. Which of course, none of you do.

It isn't bigoted when you call something what it is: delusional and evidentially unsupported.

[Eddie]

Two things...
1. We could diverte some of the wasted tax dollars to such a cause...
2. First post... Really bad actions = drinking alcohol... I think just about everyone outside of the Islamic religion is going to Hell....

[G. DePalma]

Scott,

I have to say that I am really disappointed in you. It may seem funny to you to say something so ignorant and bigoted but unless it your beliefs that are being made fun of, it isn't a joking matter. There is actually a book called "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Understanding Islam". In it the author addresses this particular verse since it seems to have been taken out of context by those that are not familar with the Islamic religion.

The verse that the NY Times article was talking about has been misrepresented. Traditionally it has been translated as thus: "As to those women from whom you fear defiant sinfulness, first admonish them, then refuse to share your bed with them, and then, if necessary, slap them. Then if they obey you, take no further actions against them and do not make excuses to punish them." (Qur'an 4:34)

Islam never gives any man the right to strike his wife for any reason unless she is engaging in some time of evil activity such as drinking alcohol, abusing the children, or other really bad behavior. Given that most women are not of this nature, physically punishing a wife should never arise in 99 percent of Islamic marriages. Now, take a closer look at the verse. If you will notice, two steps of reform and correction are mentioned first: talking with the woman; and if that doesn't work, the man sleeping on the couch to express his displeasure. Islamic scholars have ruled that these two steps could be carried out indefinitely.

But what if a woman is so bad that she refuses to listen and doesn't care if her husband is not sleeping with her(and she is still enagaged in the sinful activity). The last recourse is for the husband is to slap her. Now this where Islam gets interesting. Muhammad, who was brushing his teeth at the time, was asked by a man, "What should we slap them with?" He answered, "With this." And he held up the toothbrush. Look at that! Muhammad interperted this verse in such a way as to make the physical punishment laughable. The symbolic meaning of the slap with the toothbrush, then, is that the man has reached the end of his patience. An alternative meaning to the Arabic word, daraba, that is often translated as "slap" or "beat", is "to go away from". In other words, the symbolic tap of the toothbrush means that he is about to leave the marriage.

So actually, if you look at the verse in context, and use the mandatory interpertation of the Prophet, there is never any reason for the man to hit his wife in any way that would harm her. To restate, Islam does not allow a man to beat his wife; it merely provides a way for the man to symbolically express his displeasure when his wife is commiting a grave sin that threatens the stability of the family. Divorce may be the man's next step.

In regard to those that suggest that the Qur'an we have today is not completely in line with the one Muhammad recited, the reply is simple: All of the people who were involved in recording the Qur'an both during and after Muhammad's time were memorizers of the book.

The Qur'an was an oral message given to Muhammad through the archangel Gabriel. Muhammad himself couldn't write, so he asked his literate followers to be his earliest secretaries. By the time of the Prophet's death, hundreds of people had memorized the Qur'an in it's properly arranged order. After one the most prominent memorizers was killed in battle, the Qur'an was prepared to be put in a single book form so that it's proper order and reading would never be lost. This was done under the meticulous supervision of the Prophet's chief secretary. Five or seven copies were prepared, so that scribes in the far-flung regions of the Empire could make further copies. Two copies of those Qur'ans exist to this day in museums in Turkey and Taskent. They have EXACTLY the same text as any Arabic Qur'an today.

And to finally approach the subject of terrorists - they may call themselves Muslims, but they aren't. True Muslims of the world will never accept them as one of their own - simply because what they say they are doing in the name of Allah - killing innocents, suicide bombings - these things are not condoned in the Islam. They have strayed very far from the true religion.

I hope this clarifies some issues.

[Zarkow]

I find it very funny when adults fight over which Harry Potter-book is the one containing the Truth.

[rationalneurotic]

actually the bible itself also had a lot of translation problems, as with many translated material. That's why there's so many translations with the bible. I guess the only way to really read it is to learn the original language and then read it, ie learning hebrew and then reading the original text or learning arabic and then reading the original text of Quran (which a lot of Muslims do).

But that aside, I do find the post interesting and your blog interesting. =) Some materials are just a bit too sensitive to certain people, including me, who's a "anything goes" person... there are sore spots that we sometimes get offended by, even if we do find the humour on top appealing.

ah well.

[Oracle]

Scott, I think you are rebelious from a moslem point of view, If you try to read the koran yourself maybe you will be daraba-ed by it.

[QwkDrw]

Why are you looking in the Koran for what to do about a rebellious wife? Just lower your expectations -- and practice saying over and over: "You're right." "You're right." "You're right."

[ibn iblis]

Suleiman Ahmad, you seem to be stuck in a loop .. can you give some real arguments (maybe this is not the place, a discussion forum would be better) ?
btw, no need to shout, it's fine to disagree, .. sparks of truth come from the clash of opinions

[zilzal]

The Koran author foresaw you and immunized it exactly against you (and the other infidels :-)

"[3.7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you;
some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical;
then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding."

[Hassan]

Hahaha. I mean, hohoho. The stories of Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are a lot more entertaining. Did Jesus wait for a tooth fairy when he lost a tooth, too?

[Sulaiman Ahmad]

Dear Ibn Iblis

(btw 'ibn iblis'='son of the devil' --- thanks for clearly showing your arrogance),

Thank you for replying to my post.

You seem to have quite a bit of 'knowledge', but obviously if you don't come ***neutrally*** to the Truth -without prejudice- these very verses apply to yourself.

THE TRUTH IS CLEAR, YOU JUST CHOSE TO CLOUD YOUR EYESIGHT.

Why do you take part of the book and ignore the rest? Allah 'misguides' only those who hate to be guided. Meaning that they CHOSE first to follow the wrong path (after clear guidance) and Allah delivered them to that path. Allah has all power, we have no power, no one can do anything without Him. You know this.

We can't even blink without Allah making it happen for us. We choose to move our limbs, but we don't make it happen, Allah does. You should know this.

'Moving' is an action. 'Misguiding' is also an action. We humans only have control over the 'Choosing' action.

THE TRUTH IS CLEAR, YOU JUST CHOOSE TO CLOUD YOUR EYESIGHT.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Relating Qur'anic Verses:
-----------------------------------------------------------
"...Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other? What then is the reward of such among you as do this but disgrace in the life of this world, and on the day of resurrection they shall be sent back to the most grievous chastisement, and Allah is not at all heedless of what you do. These are they who buy the life of this world for the hereafter, so their chastisement shall not be lightened nor shall they be helped."(2:86-7)

"Lo! This is a Reminder. Let him who *will*, then, *choose* a way unto his Lord."(73:19)

"Lo! Allah disdaineth not to coin the similitude even of a gnat. Those who believe know that it is the truth from their Lord; but those who disbelieve say: What doth Allah wish (to teach) by such a similitude ? He misleadeth many thereby, and He guideth many thereby; and *He* *misleadeth* *thereby* *only* ***miscreants***;"(2:26)
-----------------------------------------------------------
I don't expect this to change you. My job is not to change anyone. My job is to deliver the Message of Truth. Your job is to change yourself. joker

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/

[diana]

hm. so dilbert is now a qoran specialist?

over time, the true meaning of the qoran has been diluted. but you shouldn't make fun of another religion's holy book.

i myself don't like the arabs for their extreme ways, but show some respect. you are influencing a lot of people.

[ibn iblis]

"The Truth is clear, you just choose to cloud your eyesight."

you think so ? what islam are you talking about ? apparently it is allah causing me to err, he's punishing me for something I cannot help, there's no choice in islam, only submission (also see http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html#HEADING1)

Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases (14.4)

Of them are some who listen unto thee, but We have placed upon their hearts veils, lest they should understand, and in their ears a deafness. If they saw every token they would not believe therein; to the point that, when they come unto thee to argue with thee, the disbelievers say: This is naught else than fables of the men of old (6.25)
[ps: in that day people believed the heart to have the function of the brain]

We confound their hearts and their eyes. As they believed not therein at the first, We let them wander blindly on in their contumacy (6.110)

If Allah so willed, He could make you all one people: But He leaves straying whom He pleases, and He guides whom He pleases: but ye shall certainly be called to account for all your actions. (16.93)

If it were Allah's will, He could gather them together unto true guidance: so be not thou amongst those who are swayed by ignorance (and impatience)! (6.35)

And let not those who disbelieve think that Our granting them respite is better for their souls; We grant them respite only that they may add to their sins; and they shall have a disgraceful chastisement (3.178)

Swaying between this (and that), (belonging) neither to these nor to those. He whom Allah causeth to go astray, thou (O Muhammad) wilt not find a way for him (14.143)

Whomsoever Allah guides, he is the one who follows the right way; and whomsoever He causes to err, these are the losers (7.178)

[Don]

Slang can be a problem too when translating. I read somewhere (Of course I can't remember where, it would make this too easy to disprove) a discussion of the story in the book of Numbers where Moses struck a rock and had water flow from it. To "strike a rock" was (supposedly) slang for having a change of luck, such as you are plowing your field one day and everything is fine until you damage your plow when it hits a rock.

So Moses and company are in the desert with little water until Moses "strikes a rock" and finds water. Some monk somewhere takes it literally and fills in the blanks. Now we have a story about the people being upset with Moses, he tells him that he will get water, and he hits a rock with a staff and water flows from it.

Makes sense?

[Sulaiman Ahmad]

lol joker.

Repeat:

Ignorance and Stupidity.

The Truth is clear, you just choose to cloud your eyesight.

http://www.Islamtomorrow.com/

[ibn iblis]

hello Abd Rahman,
You tell me to read before stating flaws. What makes you think I haven't read and I stated flaws, the fact you disagree with me? Hardly an argument. You mentioned you have been studying translations of the quran, can you agree most translations are 'softer' than the original arabic verses ?

The quran is supposed to be the last message from god to us people, so why speak of an historical context, are you saying allah made a mistake when it was revealed that the quran would be the last message and applicable to all people of all times ?

Can you point me to a verse where it says I need to interpret the book using the proper historical context, and are there directions on how to do this ? Am I asking too much ? Wouldn't this contradict the verses I posted earlier, saying the book is clear and without a doubt ?

[John]

I am paraphrasing here but I think Rufus said it best in "Dogma." People took a good idea and built a belief system out of it. You can change an idea but not a belief and tha tis dangerous.

[ibn iblis]

sorry OlioBandito, apparently I meant Shan .. it's kind of confusing to have the poster's name under that dotted line.

[Abd Rahman]

to Ibn. Iblis:

You forget one thing: historical context of what is happening when the verses is revealed to people. When the infidels trying to attack your supporter, what will you say? God help His people by letting them slay, kill them IN war (or actively, without any logical reasons but rage)

I believe you should read before stating a flaw.

-------
I've been undertaking considerable research towards translating the Koran for many years now. Problematically, I still have not been able to determine where precisely it instructs people to yell "AY-LALALALA" constantly.
Indeed. They need only anger (if I read your point correctly) when they were suppressed badly (or no other choices).

---------
"Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

Above hadith was stated by the Prophet (S.A.W) because there are people out there becomes a Muslim because of the benefits they will receive when they become Muslims (which happened a lot after the Conquering of Mecca)

[some dude]

By the way,in the Bible they mentioned something about making idols of yourself...wonder if that applys to photographs?

[some dude]

I AM THE SHEIT OF THE TECHNOLOGICALLY BASED MUSLIM AUTHORITY AND WE WILL INCORPORATE OUR HACKING SYSTEMS(the closest we got to from 'kill all infidels') FOR SUGGESTING THE VILE AND DISPICABLE IDEA!!!!

[Arifi Waked]

Scot Adams, please check google or wikipedia before slandering Islam and all it's followers. I am honestly sad that I have to stop respecting you now. You've said some offensive things before, but this was the first time I was actually hurt by the depth of your ignorance and your complete disregard for the idea that a Muslim could also be a rational human being.

I have to move to America in a year to get my PhD if I want to be able to help develop special education here in the Middle East and honestly, since the so called educated and enlightened such as yourself are so frighteningly ignorant and dismissive of my humanity I'm now even more scared of moving there than I was before. I hope you do actually read this. Please just try to remember that you are a respected figure to many and when you post things like that, you make it that much more likely that a Muslim woman wearing the headscarf will be harassed and demeaned while in America.

[Salman Khalid]

Wow! I was barely able to sit straight in my chair... you know with all the laughter!

On a serious note; Seriously?

There is not a problem of translation alone, and one's problem is not merely one of accuracy of translation either. To start with, it is part of the unique nature of the Qur'an that many of its statements allow more than one interpretation. I think it was Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, who described the Qur'an as "allowing different versions."

When we read the Qur'an in Arabic, we are aware of at least some of these differences, and accept them all as being intended in the overall meaning of the Qur'an. Since we acknowledge that Qur'an is God's own word, we cannot say that a correct meaning of what He has revealed is not intended. However, study of the Qur'an itself and the Hadith will settle a great deal of what is meant by each Qur'anic statement.

Some people may suggest that they do not have time for such a study. The answer is that they need to ask those who devote much of their time and energy to the studying of the Qur'an, the Hadith, and Islamic studies generally. This is nothing new. Even in the very early days after the Prophet, peace be upon him, had passed away, some of the companions were known for their scholarly knowledge, and they were asked for rulings on different matters.

When it comes to translation, a translator has the not-so-easy task of producing in his language what someone else has expressed in a different language. There are methods of expression, shades of meaning, word and phrase connotations, and other subtleties, which cannot be reproduced, in another language. These have much to do with the culture of the two languages used. This applies to translation of any text written by human beings. The more literary the style, the more difficult it is to reproduce it in another language. The difficulty is even much greater with the Qur'an, the word of God. The Qur'anic style is so excellent that it surpasses any human style in any language.

What do we expect, then, from the poor translator, competent as he may be? Muhammad Asad, who produced one of the best translations of the Qur'an in English, says these very words at the end of his work: "In all humility and true submission ends the attempt of a powerless servant of God in interpreting the immortal word of his Lord."

So we do not blame the translators as long as they make an honest attempt to produce a good translation. We take all meanings that are within a reasonable interpretation of the text. We study the Qur'an and Hadith to acquire a good insight into what God's message is. (Reference; Our Dialogue)

The Verse 4:34 is interprettable into various forms, however, upon study in light of other verses and other hadiths, one is left with only a bunch of translations.

And in regards to beating another person; one has to take into consideration Huqooq of the People that Allah has stressed upon in Quran, and the words of Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) in which he speaks against those who inflict harm on another (when not in war).

May God guide us all!

Best Regards,
Salman Khalid.

[Salman Khalid]

Wow! I was barely able to sit straight in my chair... you know with all the laughter!

On a serious note; Seriously?

There is not a problem of translation alone, and one's problem is not merely one of accuracy of translation either. To start with, it is part of the unique nature of the Qur'an that many of its statements allow more than one interpretation. I think it was Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, who described the Qur'an as "allowing different versions."

When we read the Qur'an in Arabic, we are aware of at least some of these differences, and accept them all as being intended in the overall meaning of the Qur'an. Since we acknowledge that Qur'an is God's own word, we cannot say that a correct meaning of what He has revealed is not intended. However, study of the Qur'an itself and the Hadith will settle a great deal of what is meant by each Qur'anic statement.

Some people may suggest that they do not have time for such a study. The answer is that they need to ask those who devote much of their time and energy to the studying of the Qur'an, the Hadith, and Islamic studies generally. This is nothing new. Even in the very early days after the Prophet, peace be upon him, had passed away, some of the companions were known for their scholarly knowledge, and they were asked for rulings on different matters.

When it comes to translation, a translator has the not-so-easy task of producing in his language what someone else has expressed in a different language. There are methods of expression, shades of meaning, word and phrase connotations, and other subtleties, which cannot be reproduced, in another language. These have much to do with the culture of the two languages used. This applies to translation of any text written by human beings. The more literary the style, the more difficult it is to reproduce it in another language. The difficulty is even much greater with the Qur'an, the word of God. The Qur'anic style is so excellent that it surpasses any human style in any language.

What do we expect, then, from the poor translator, competent as he may be? Muhammad Asad, who produced one of the best translations of the Qur'an in English, says these very words at the end of his work: "In all humility and true submission ends the attempt of a powerless servant of God in interpreting the immortal word of his Lord."

So we do not blame the translators as long as they make an honest attempt to produce a good translation. We take all meanings that are within a reasonable interpretation of the text. We study the Qur'an and Hadith to acquire a good insight into what God's message is. (Reference; Our Dialogue)

The Verse 4:34 is interprettable into various forms, however, upon study in light of other verses and other hadiths, one is left with only a bunch of translations.

And in regards to beating another person; one has to take into consideration Huqooq of the People that Allah has stressed upon in Quran, and the words of Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) in which he speaks against those who inflict harm on another (when not in war).

May God guide us all!

Best Regards,
Salman Khalid.

[n]

The question is - should intolerence be tolerated?

[Aditya Simha]

Cool! Now, tell me this: are there any hot chick-terrorists who would be willing to seduce an infidel like myself? That I would be game for! Bearded blokes, kindly apply elsewhere!

[OlioBandito]

Ibin Iblis

The postee name follows the comments not heads it. Another example of misquotes perhaps.

[brian]

you realise of course that ,until the crusades, jews and christians were not considered infidels. the prophet mohammed is supposed to have stayed in the house of of arab jews when he was in hiding. this is all fecked up. some sort of dialog needs to be set up with the muslim world.

[brian]

Dude you keep on writing things like that they are going to get you .... your going to need to help me find a backup comic.

[TheMan]

Hey Scott, I DARE you to write a similar funny article about Jews.

[Zeya]

That s a wonderful idea.. Only if wirld was easy game. Every religon has some form of anamolous beliefs. So i would say it may be hurtful to non-militant muslim to read this. I am not muslim but I do respect all religion. I think disparaging any other religon is equivalent to abusing someone's parents. SO i think cracking humour on it is not good idea.

[Sulaiman Ahmad]

Ignorance and Stupidity.

You don't think that people asked about what this verse meant when it was revealed? Why don't try to see how it was interpreted and *practised* AT THE TIME it was revealed.

In every prayer we pray, all Muslims ask "(O Allah) Guide us to the straight path --- the path of those whom you favour and not of those of who earn your wrath nor those have gone astray."

SCOTT, you look at Islam with a prejudice. The Truth is clear, you just choose to cloud your eyesight.

I don't expect this to change you whatsoever. My job is not to change anyone, but simply to pass on the Message of Truth.

http://www.IslamTomorrow.com/

[Says the guy who prays to invisible friends... - Scott]

[Peter]

As was indicated in the article this is not a new view.

http://www.crescentlife.com/thisthat/feminist%20muslims/beating_women_yuksel.htm

If she has problems with that bit she's going to have real problems when she gets to the bit about "the fire that never stops burning."

N.B. The Qu'ran isn't like the Bible, i.e. a load of stuff stuck together, but is, (if you're a muslim), the _literal_ word of God. No wriggle room, no debate, no "filtering through a prophet".

[Gavin]

I think, Evil HR Kitty, that the mountain pass / entrance to walled city translation idea was made up, basically. The camel / rope bit may be more of a question, but I believe it's generally agreed that Jesus meant it's impossible for a rich man to get into heaven. I have heard it said that the 'difficulty' in translation was created to enable rich people to feel OK about being rich, even though their Saviour chap goes on and on about how being rich is pretty much akin to being evil. This slight change has allowed millions of Americans to feel OK about themselves and not at all hypocritical when they go on about understanding the Bible and the word of Jesus, etc.

Basically, Christians are crap at Christianity. Atheists would do a much better job.

[Petra]

The problem here is understanding when translating any language to another there will be inconsistence words if the translator is not totally fluent in the languages. Language in the written form over time gets transmuted in it's context, this makes translating the written language even more difficult, in the example you use the word "daraba" in modern Arabic terms can mean different things as you noted. In terms of a translation from the Old World Arabic (think 650-700 AD) as written to Modern English the translator has to look at the context the word "daraba" was used in. Then perhaps the translator would translate the word correctly. The understanding part of this goes much deeper. First the Qur'an has not changed from how Muhammad wrote what Allah had revealed to him (If the Islamic Historians are truly correct). So, The Qur'an is literally the word of God as spoken by God so, once translated it would immediately ceases to be the literal word of God, and hence cannot be equated with the Qur'an in it's original Arabic form. Has the original verses in Muhammad's lifetime were not written down and were revised by Muhammad. The true text of the Qur'an only ever resided in the head of Muhammad and as he had his follower memorize it. After Muhammand's death the text was not even written down until the caliphate of Abu Bakr. 'Uthman later order a rescension of the of the text to be made to server as the definitive written form of the text. 'Uthman however did not just relied on the oral texts of Muslims who memorized it durning the lifetime of Muhammad by he also had the written text ordered by Abu Bakr. All Modern copies of the Qur'an come from the 'Uthmanic Rescension, and it is this version of the Qur'an considered as the holy text of Islam.
As the text and context is from a time that is basically 1357 years ago we must consider the changes to the Arabic language over that period. Even most Modern Muslims understand that the Arabic language in the Qur'an is 1357 years old and try to make the adjustments when needed. In other ones everyone needs to live in the present and get out of the past, 1357 years of evolution and learning the words of god need to be shown in forms and methods other then AK-47's and suicide bombers.

[Squiggy]

That Koran is punny.

[brother52]

re:

Did you know the Arabic word for 'Martyr' is the same word for 'Homosexual'? Many believe that the Ku'ran was simply stating that those who die practicing same sex relations will be punished with 72 female virgins. It's like queer hell.

Queer hell?
Same sex relations applies to females too...

If you want a real punishment think of the 72 mothers-in-law...

[marge]

Scott-This doesn't have anything to do with what you wrote today, although I find this whole topic extremely interesting. We all know the Pope some time long ago changed the New Testement to fit the needs of the Catholic Church at the time. Who knows if what's being translated is even what was originally written?

Anyways, I'm doing your thing where you write down your intention 15 times a day. I'd really love it if you give me your personal guarantee that it's going to work. Please? It would make me feel so much better, although writing the intention is making me feel better in and of itself.

[Mike]

Like any other so-called religious texts. The Koran/King James/Talmud/ and any if not all of the apocryphal writings were written with a serious bent to the current political wave of the time. Language changes over time and the way we use words change dramatically from region to region. If anyone really completely understood the true meaning of life and spirituality they would be miraculous beings. In that, they would be impossible to ignore because of their greatness.
So far I have not seen greatness in any corner of the world brought forward by ANYONES writings. Mostly, it has spawned enterprising clerics that use the rhetoric to increase their status and exert control over a certain section of the populous. All religion of any sort fall under this heading. Face it folks. Organized religion is a sham and a hoax perpetrated by those who have a certain agenda. That of which is far from trying to bring people closer to "God". They pick and choose which lessons from their own texts that they are willing to propagate. Any text that violates their selfish purpose is flatly ignored or re-translated to mean what they want it to mean. I do apologize if this entry is offensive to some but let’s all get our heads out of the sand and realize the hoax and build a better world.. without the lies and deception.

[Melanie]

I don't have any sympathy for Laleh Bakhtiar. The article quotes her as saying, "I couldn't believe that God would sanction harming another human being except in war." In other words, she believes that God sanctions war and the harm that is done to human beings during war. (Of course, she probably has no sympathy whatsoever for the infidels to whom that would apply.)

That being the case, maybe her God favors harming women, too. Perhaps she should quit rebelling against the concept and take her punishment.

[you'd what?!]

00h dilbert has a new boss.

needing new material? :P

[MrBongo]

Devon's got it right...great post.

I urge all who truly want to understand the mind-set of a Muslim and what truly drives the mid-east conflict to read 'Islam and the Jews, the Unfinished Battle'

[HALiverpool]

I don't have time to read ALL of the comments today, but I saw that more than one person pointed out that most Muslims read the Koran in their native Arabic. Therefore it isn't translated for them. Even if a book is read in its original language by a native speaker, in its entirety, so that context isn't lost, it is subject to interpretation. That's why people go to their chosen house of worship and refer to their religious leaders… to be aided in proper interpretation of their religious texts. Hence the popular saying, "No two people ever read the same book."

I’d even go so far as to say that, if more than one person reads this comment, they will have at least two opinions about what it means.

-HAL

[ibn iblis]

OlioBandito: "Oh, and the Quran doesn't say anything about killing infidels... that's not even a misinterpretation of the Quran... it's more just some power hungry leader's idea for getting more power."

I would have posted links for the verses below but this blog thinks I'm spamming in that case.
http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/quranindex.html
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

The quran is (according to itself):
a clear book (5:15), easy to understand (44:58 , 54:22 , 54:32, 54:40), explained in detail (6:114), conveyed clearly (5:16, 10:15), with "no doubt" in it (2:1).

so here goes:

I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (8.12)

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (9.5)

And slay them wherever ye catch them (2.191)

And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression (2.193)

Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you (2.216)

Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah (3.28)

Then fight in Allah’s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment. (4.84)

Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (69.30)

They (the unbelievers) should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (5.33)

So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them herewith with a great endeavour. (25.52)

The 'prophet' has also said:
"Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

a summary:
http://www.humanists.net/alisina/quran_teaches.htm

[Dmitry Z]

Borjes's nightmare of the innumerable versions of the same books is reality, apparently. Since one cannot know everything and have an opinion on everything, living a moral life is then, a balancing act between own sense of goodness and societal values. More tricky, as once close societies become transparent and intertwined.

[Evil HR Kitty]

D.Mented

Nah, it wasn't a rope passing through the eye of a needle (just as impossible as a camel, just a much less interesting image). Actually, it's the eye of the needle bit that has changed.

Apparently a very narrow mountain pass was known as an eye of a needle. So not impossible for a rich man to go to heaven, but certainly his chances aren't looking good.

[Natalia]

I love it when they say, "Leave politics to politicians," as if we never had and didn't get ourselves into the bombing of Hiroshima, the war in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. This pretentious attitude is funny. And sad. Mostly funny though.

[Karima]

This is a hillarious post, but you really have no idea what are you talking about...

[HelloOldBean]

"Well, I am not a muslim, but as far as I know, there's nothing in the Koran that says the infidels must be killed." (Elliander)

There are over 270 verses in the Qu'ran that command violence against infidels. Have a look at Surah 9 aya 5 for a start. Then look at this video by Jay Smith of Pfander Films.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlhNAEClzZw

[TJ]

Dear Scott,

I am non-muslim Asian and familiar with the communal/militant /fanatical nature of Muslims.

While what you write in general on Islam/terrorism is really funny, i feel like I am having a last laugh.

In general the western world (including you and the Bush men ), lack the understanding of the psyche of Muslims. I dont know how the West can win the holy war, if for Muslims even blowing themselves & their kids to bits will also qualify as a Victory! ( not the general civilised muslims, but the militant ones ).

Let me tell you this; the Westerners can never even come close to understanding the islamic psyche. Its too complicated, and irrational. To think like that you have to be one of them. and its simply impossible where you guys come from. The faith and belief that comes from growing up in a family of 2 wives and 8 kids surviving on a monthly salary of less than 25 dollars, you cant even fathom.

rgds,
TJ.

[John The Dentist]

"I'm curious how many terrorists actually read the Koran."

Trick question. They would have already blown it up.

[Professor Van Stormbergen]

I've been undertaking considerable research towards translating the Koran for many years now. Problematically, I still have not been able to determine where precisely it instructs people to yell "AY-LALALALA" constantly.

[Reenen]

That's why the "Holy Koran" is not "holy" when translated.

You only get the real value if you are a speaker of the tongue it was written in. The language has changed, and who knows what "Daraba" meant way back when the Koran was written.

[Gavin]

Mmm, the posts about how certain other religious books are really well translated and have no mistakes in them at all are good fun, too. For some reason, the Jehovah's Witnesses are busy building their own translation of the Christian Bible because they don't think the current translations are reliable enough, even though there are already multiple translations. The very fact that some words and concepts in any given language may not exist in another language means that translations are always going to be difficult if not impossible. Occasionally, terminology may even be intentionally ambiguous or imprecise - words such as "punish" may be chosen to mean that some element of choice (gasp! You may have to think for yourself) exists for a given situation. Colloquial terminology further clouds the picture (I may get off may face, totally pissed, shitfaced this weekend. Try translating that into other languages. Particularly German).

As for mistranslations in Islam, a good example is this reward of 72 virgins; I'm pretty sure it actually says something about ample fruit - i.e. Heaven is somewhere where you'll never starve, rather than being a deeply misogynistic adolescent fantasy land. My guess is that this "mistranslation" is actually an attempt to willfully manipulate the all too gullible youth.

In other words, Scott's suggestion is already happening.

The Bible was definitely a product of its time - it was originally compiled for the convenience of the ruling elite. Certainly the King James Bible was subtly modified to better fit the politics of the day. What we should do is to regularly update these books - we do it with every other book. Perhaps it's now not so good to stone your kids or maybe it's OK to eat pork, now. The possibilities are endless.

[Gavin]

And perhaps you should leave English to the English, hackaback... Just because you're not an expert in something does not mean you should not comment. And besides, wasn't Scott talking about religion, not politics? (Oh, but this is Islam, so the two are one and the same...) I'm assuming you're an expert as you have commented? And I suppose that all politicians become experts in their field before talking about anything (I like that one - it's almost as funny as Scott's post ;-)).

[Bertram Henze]

Nice idea, if terrorists were really interested in the semantics of the Koran (unfortunately, they're not). And for an encore, you could find similar translation issues with the Bible and confuse those people with fish on their cars.

[psg]

scott,

just one question...why this deathwish!!!!! you got money, fame(a little bit) and success...enjoy it while it lasts...why risk your life pal?
good thing that you were not the president of the erstwhile USSR!! we would have been living in caves by now..given your penchant for raking up issues and inviting trouble!!!

I can almost hear you talking as the president ofthe USSR(in Russian of course, but translated to english, translation errors again!!)

boris, this vodka tastes like pee...this is pissing me off ...nuke em!!

[Jayne Marie]

Umm...the "original" not translated Koran??? Wow. I didn't know photocopiers/printing presses dated back that far...or is it presumed that transcriptionists (often illiterate) were able to perfectly copy every mark...and that later transcriptions were never tempted to make 'corrections' and that there is truly ONE holy version?

No wonder Wittgenstein argued we could never communicate...

[James Langham]

Hackaback said:

Your blog is hilarious. But the thing is you must have sufficient knowledge about something to speak on something and make people think your way.
You are a great humuorist . I read your blog for the first time three days back. but please leave the politics to politician

Posted by: hackaback | March 26, 2007 at 08:02 PM

I would argue politics is to serious to leave to politicians!

[richard hunter]

From the article "“I decided it either has to have a different meaning, or I can’t keep translating,” said Ms. Bakhtiar, an Iranian-American who adopted her father’s Islamic faith as an adult and had not dwelled on the verse before. “I couldn’t believe that God would sanction harming another human being except in war.”"

- says a lot, she honestly beleives her God sits on top of a mountain and shouts down 'DO NOT HURT ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.........unless in War.............or in road rage..........or slightly miffed'

Also it is a good religion that allows me to chop and change when I like 'I was translating the bible into Welsh when I came across the paragraph that alleged God told Adam not to eat apples, I can not beleive my God would say such a thing, we all know 5 a day is important, so I beleive he told Adam not grapple, which indicates wrestling is the work of the devil'

and so starts a new religion

[Nick]

First comes the need then comes the excuse !

[Carlbert]

I suspect the problem is that the terrorists ARE reading the original Arabic, rather than the modern politically-correct version.

[Arifi Waked]

One again, your flaunting of the way you so perfectly fit the stereotype of an ignorant American both saddens and worries me.

1) There are literally thousands of people who have memorized the Quran word for word. Trust me, we'd notice.

2) There have been literally thousands of scholars throughout history who have dedicated their lives to trying to reinterpret the exact meaning of each word in each situation and context in which it occurs in the Quran. The Quran is meant to be a book that transcends time and all Muslims know that there is more in it than we have already discovered and hopefully will continue to search beyond the surface interpretation of the literal word in it's most common use at this point. Unlike English, classical Arabic is a frozen language. What is used now, Modern Standard Arabic, is very different from the Arabic of the Quran. Words that now mean one thing may have meant something very different over a thousand years ago.

3) There is nowhere in the Quran where it says to kill infadels. The only reason we're allowed to kill anyone is if it's in self defense. The whole concept of an infidel doesnt even exist in Islam. There is actually a passage in the Quran that tells Muslims to look to the Christians when we have questions of faith. Islam is to Muslims only the continuation of the Judeo-Christian tradition. We believe that there were prophets sent by God all over the world, many of which are mentioned in none of the holy books to come from Arabia. As such, we are supposed to respect Budists, Christians, those following any Native American tradition or really any other religion where one aspires to become closer to God and live a more spiritually fulfilling existence.

You are a public figure and as such have a responsibility to not spread hate and religionist and which ultimately and inevitably becomes racist propaganda. If you really are so dedicated to providing meaning to your life by serving the higher purpose of helping us all be happy, than the very least you could do is a simple google or wikipedia search before you post something so disgustingly offensive.

But, hey, if you enjoy propagating stereotypes about your own people and giving Arabs and the rest of the world even more of a reason to think that all Americans are willfully ignorant, you just go right no posting whatever offensive notions float into that propaganda filled head of yours.

[Arifi Waked]

One again, your flaunting of the way you so perfectly fit the stereotype of an ignorant American both saddens and worries me.

1) There are literally thousands of people who have memorized the Quran word for word. Trust me, we'd notice.

2) There have been literally thousands of scholars throughout history who have dedicated their lives to trying to reinterpret the exact meaning of each word in each situation and context in which it occurs in the Quran. The Quran is meant to be a book that transcends time and all Muslims know that there is more in it than we have already discovered and hopefully will continue to search beyond the surface interpretation of the literal word in it's most common use at this point. Unlike English, classical Arabic is a frozen language. What is used now, Modern Standard Arabic, is very different from the Arabic of the Quran. Words that now mean one thing may have meant something very different over a thousand years ago.

3) There is nowhere in the Quran where it says to kill infadels. The only reason we're allowed to kill anyone is if it's in self defense. The whole concept of an infidel doesnt even exist in Islam. There is actually a passage in the Quran that tells Muslims to look to the Christians when we have questions of faith. Islam is to Muslims only the continuation of the Judeo-Christian tradition. We believe that there were prophets sent by God all over the world, many of which are mentioned in none of the holy books to come from Arabia. As such, we are supposed to respect Budists, Christians, those following any Native American tradition or really any other religion where one aspires to become closer to God and live a more spiritually fulfilling existence.

You are a public figure and as such have a responsibility to not spread hate and religionist and which ultimately and inevidably becomes racist propoganda. If you really are so dedicated to providing meaning to your life by serving the higher purpose of helping us all be happy, than the very least you could do is a simple google or wikipedia search before you post something so disgustingly offensive.

But, hey, if you enjoy propagating stereotypes about your own people and giving Arabs and the rest of the world even more of a reason to think that all Americans are willfully ignorant, you just go right no posting whatever offensive notions float into that propaganda filled head of yours.

[Arifi Waked]

One again, your flaunting of the way you so perfectly fit the stereotype of an ignorant American both saddens and worries me.

1) There are literally thousands of people who have memorized the Quran word for word. Trust me, we'd notice.

2) There have been literally thousands of scholars throughout history who have dedicated their lives to trying to reinterpret the exact meaning of each word in each situation and context in which it occurs in the Quran. The Quran is meant to be a book that transcends time and all Muslims know that there is more in it than we have already discovered and hopefully will continue to search beyond the surface interpretation of the literal word in it's most common use at this point. Unlike English, classical Arabic is a frozen language. What is used now, Modern Standard Arabic, is very different from the Arabic of the Quran. Words that now mean one thing may have meant something very different over a thousand years ago.

3) There is nowhere in the Quran where it says to kill infadels. The only reason we're allowed to kill anyone is if it's in self defense. The whole concept of an infidel doesnt even exist in Islam. There is actually a passage in the Quran that tells Muslims to look to the Christians when we have questions of faith. Islam is to Muslims only the continuation of the Judeo-Christian tradition. We believe that there were prophets sent by God all over the world, many of which are mentioned in none of the holy books to come from Arabia. As such, we are supposed to respect Budists, Christians, those following any Native American tradition or really any other religion where one aspires to become closer to God and live a more spiritually fulfilling existence.

You are a public figure and as such have a responsibility to not spread hate and religionist and which ultimately and inevidably becomes racist propoganda. If you really are so dedicated to providing meaning to your life by serving the higher purpose of helping us all be happy, than the very least you could do is a simple google or wikipedia search before you post something so disgustingly offensive.

But, hey, if you enjoy propagating stereotypes about your own people and giving Arabs and the rest of the world even more of a reason to think that all Americans are willfully ignorant, you just go right no posting whatever offensive notions float into that propaganda filled head of yours.

[Wonderfully ironic. -- Scott]

[Hoddy]

"If you want to end islamic terroism you need to do only one thing: Point out that the Saudi's have only one product and only one customer. An awake capitalist would know it's a buyer's market."

The Saudis KNOW this. Which is why they funded G W Bush's oil career and invest so heavily in the USA. The Saudis own ~ 8% of the USA's economy.

This is why, despite 13/14ths (?) of the 9/11 terrorists being Saudis, the USA attacked Afghanistan and Iraq.

Who's the bitch now?

[Kevin Kunreuther]

Jeff The Human Ashtray - very funny - it's gonna' be a good week.

[Richard]

Devon,

"For Christians that have done horrible things, their is no justification from a Biblical pov..."

I would like to point out most respectfully that the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the witch burnings were perpetuated by Christians. They may not be excessivley bad, true, but it's the only bad things that I could come up with. That, and some German Christian guy with a weird moustache. But yeah, you Christians are the most pious people ever! No intolerance built into *your* holy book!

[David]

That would never work. You might not have noticed, but religious nuts who refer to religious texts for guidance don't actually pay attention to what the text says. They think they do, but they don't.

I mean, have you ever actually READ the Bible? There's some really messed up stuff in there. Even though the Bible often advocates behavior which any priest would tell you is highly immoral (stoning disobedient children to death, anyone?), we still call it a blueprint for morality. Obviously, nobody actually pays attention to what it says.

[Richard]

For all those that believe that people should leave "politics for the politicians", I would like to humbly state that that is a stupid and dangerous idea. We all have our opinions and we all have something to contribute. Also, we live in a democracy. If you really don't care for politics, fine, a monarchy wouldn't be too much more different for you. But for those that have things to say and ideas to shape, why would you stop them from doing so just because it's not their profession?

Oh right. You aren't a designated thinker, so therefore...

[Maya]

Great article.I hope people realize that the Koran is actually misinterpreted by the jehadis/terrorists.The level of terrorism in the world as preached by these anti-social elements is scary.

[Screen Name]

What did the first terrorist woman say to the second terrorist woman?

"Does my bomb look big in this?"

[Robert Hamilton]

Dilbert Fans, it looks like we're going to have to set up an underground railroad to save Scott's ass if we want to continue to read the strip. We'll need some peanut butter and an Internet connection, preferably with a 1200 baud aoustic modem or better, I'll need good maps of the mountain trails in Paraguay, 2 tins of chewing tobacco (better than money, there) and 2 pencils. Let's move people!

[DJ]

Scott, PLEASE be careful. You could get lynched for this. I'm not joking. It has happened before. Please take the advice of your biggest fan (yours truly) and please delete this blog and all the comments under it. Meanwhile, I'm wringing my hands hoping no fanatic is reading this. :-(

PS: The Induhvidual that I am, I pasted this comment on the wrong blog. Bah!

[OlioBandito]

Hackaback, why should one leave the Politics to the Politicians? The argument that because you are not paid to engage in an activity means that you have no right to comment on it is stupid. Just think about it for a second or two - and I'm sure you'll agree. But unless you are a professional critic you probably shouldn't answer...

[Lothar]

This was just a few days ago a big issue in germany. There was an islamic woman that wanted to get divorced quickly because her husband was beating her. A female(!) judge decided there is no reason to fasten the divorce because the koran sais its ok to beat your wife.
Well she isn't a judge anymore.
Here's a link (in english) from the german magazine "Der Spiegel" http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,473017,00.html

[Nicki Lagrange]

maybe i missed it - but no one seems to have pointed out one meaning of "tap" as in - "Yo, so I find Sharon diddling the kebbab guy. I ain't got no time for chat so i give her a double-tap to the back of the head. Budda-boom, budda-bing! Problem solved. How long before prayers?"

[hackaback]

What is the definition of rebel in that context?

[hackaback]

Your blog is hilarious. But the thing is you must have sufficient knowledge about something to speak on something and make people think your way.
You are a great humuorist . I read your blog for the first time three days back. but please leave the politics to politician

[bloodrage bob]

for the edification of the individual "trotta", who posted that he 'didn't know of any koran verses exhorting the murder/killings of infidels'....

scott had a thread about that very thing a few months ago, 18 april 2006, to be exact. very interesting post; even more interesting comments. i saved it.

the comments list example after example of koran verses calling for the killings of non-muslims. interestingly, that's not what all the profs are telling us, is it. the approved party line makes no mention of the koran's bloodthirsty verses. or, if put in a position where those verses MUST be admitted to, they're always *always* compared/contrasted to similar biblical verses. it's almost like it was a....i dunno....like it was a RULE or something. i wonder why.

[Go Far With A Car]

CFS sez: A good example of ambiguous word meanings is the word "tap" for sex. I've never seen it used anywhere but here for that meaning"

I'm almost 44 years old and I have heard guys all my life use that word. Get out more. Yuk, yuk yuk.

[OlioBandito]

My theory on the 72 Virgins is that the translation missed the word "the". So imagine the line of Bomb Chuckers waiting for their "turn" at the same 72 Virgins. What's the translation for "have" in the following statement "if you kill an infidel and die in the process you may have the 72 virgins".

"Have" may mean, "look at", "ponder upon", "talk to nicely". The possibilities are endless and the contract between the Koran and the Devotee seems to be too open to interpretation with absolutely no restitution clause on behalf of the Contactor to the Contractee.

[Shan]

"Beat" has a lot of definitions in English too... it can mean "defeat," "masturbate" (beat off), "leave" (beat it), "tired" (I'm beat), etc.

Oh, and the Quran doesn't say anything about killing infidels... that's not even a misinterpretation of the Quran... it's more just some power hungry leader's idea for getting more power.

[henoni]

ERIC-FISHEAD QUOTED:

"greater love hath no man than to this, that he lay down his wife for his friends".

Ah, thus explaining why there is so much pimping and incest with God's consent in the Old Testament.

[Kevin Kunreuther]

Translators can't even accurately translate the books from the Old Testament let alone the more recent Koran. Example: Joseph's coat of many colors was actually a cloak with long sleeves. Not sure you can wring a fabulous Lloyd-Webber / Rice musical from that concept - maybe Joseph could do magic tricks, pulling rabbits and shekels out of his sleeves, instead of dream interpretation.

Despite the popular and fundamental belief that today's Koran has been written faithfully from the first edition, so to speak, there is overwhelming evidence that changes in the almighty important diacritical marks over the centuries changed the meaning of many words from original intent, especially in the treatment of women. The originals were superseded, replaced, forgotten by new versions by conservative regimes or perhaps we should say regimes or schools of thoughts that believed in the subservience of women to men.

[D. Mented]

Books have been written on the meaning and significance of the "camel through the eye of a needle"
I understand the original phrase was "easier for a *rope* to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man into heaven".
Mistranslating the Koran won't work, though - even people in asian muslim countries have to learn Arabic to read or hear the Koran in it's original language.
I favor keeping the public schools' quality up in Western countries, and requiring that all school age children attend and pass public school or home-school and pass the tests. Educated Muslims are no more gullible, violence-prone dipshits than any other people, the problem comes from religion taking over the governments and limiting the kids' education to what the religious leaders feel is appropriate...Too much opportunity to tailor their education to make unthinking believers who do any horrible thing they're told by their religious leaders with the assumption what God wants them to.
As for all-Muslim countries - fight them if they attack, maybe some sanctions if they prepare to attack. Otherwise leave them to their faith. You can't tell the whole world what to believe, you can't even tell the followers of one religion what to believe...That's why religions split into different factions.
You realise, Scott, that even joking about making changes in the Koran really is more offensive to most Muslims than any cartoons or other depictions of Mohammed...I won't tell them, but you never know who's lurking.
D. Mented

[Steve Casey]

I can't speak about the derivation of the term "tap", but I am familiar with the term "tup"; here is extract from Wikipedia...

As a noun, a tup is a ram (male sheep). As a verb it describes copulation by a ram with an ewe (female sheep).

Colloquially, tup refers to the male role in human sexual intercourse, especially if illicit. The term is used to effect in William Shakespeare's Othello, in which Iago taunts Brabantio, Desdemona's father, by shouting to him that:

Even now, now, very now

an old black ram is tupping your white ewe.

Act I, scene 1

erm... when I say "familiar", obviously I am referring to the word and not the practice, OK? :-)

[Jim]

If you want to end islamic terroism you need to do only one thing: Point out that the Saudi's have only one product and only one customer. An awake capitalist would know it's a buyer's market.

[Keith]

Scott says: "I started wondering if the Islamic terrorists might be misinterpreting the Koran."

Putting in your bid for understatement of the century?

[Devon]

To Trotta.....then you have never read the Quran that closely......it is clear what is done to infidels....

[Devon]

Boy oh boy....the ignorance of some here is appalling!

Uh, Sean, the Original NT was written in greek, not latin...

As for the stunned comments about the Bible being mistranslated and such, that is balderdash...all THE main doctrines of the Bible have been handed down for thousands of years in the same fashion that they were orginally taught!! And they are clear.....

Ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls...almost identical to our modern hebrew bibles...yes this galls the radical fundie secularists but tis the truth.

The great thing with the Bible is that it translates beautifully from the original languages in which it was orginally written...Hebrew, Greek and some aramiac.....and if you want to check out the original and do not understand or read Biblical Hebrew or Greek, one can refer to a Lexicon for scholarly reasons!

The problem with the Quran is it is written originally in Classical arabic and to this day, islamic leaders and scholars debate what some passages mean......

However, all the cruel and brutal teachings of the Quran and Sunnah are 100 percent clear........as for killing the unbelievers and beating your wives etc etc, those admonitions are clear in the Quran and are exampled by Muhammed! The marriage to a 6 year old by muhammed and his murder of 800 innocent jewish civilians, his teaching of raping captured women, his owning of slaves etc etc are all clear and have been practiced by miltant followers of islam for 1400 years...

And for the idiot that blindly repeats the assertion that Eric Rudolph and Timothy McViegh were christians...uh, that is a lie...Rudolph is a worshipper of Nietzche and McVeigh was an athiest...

As for Bin Ladin, Hamas, Hizballah and other islamic terrorists, they can perfectly and reasonably find justification in the Quran for their actions...

For Christians that have done horrible things, their is no justification from a Biblical pov...

Of course, this doesn't stop the dishonest secularist and moral relativists from lying and making it up as they go...

I propose a challenge to the fundie secularists...go through any islamic town yelling muhammed was a false prophet.....now go through any western judeo/christian town yelling Jesus wasn't the messiah or that moses was a false leader.........NOW see what happens to you......in the Muslim town, you will have your very life threatened with death....in any western town, the worse you will get from Christians or Jews is a lecture on how you are wrong...

Moral relativists are about as stunned as they get....

As for you Scott.....you are becoming a candidate for the Witness protection program.....you will find out, that Muslims do not care for any insults of their faith...they do not turn the other cheek.....

And yes you are quite right to understand that in its context, the Quran does sanction wife beating.....their is no dispute about this overseas in predominate Islamic countries..

It is only muslims in the West that try to lie about this and prsent Islam as kinder and gentler as they are rightly embarrassed about many of the Quran and Sunnah's teachings!

[DMM in Cupertino]

How about just publishing a Koran in Wiki? It could accomplish the same thing! :-)

[Kevin]

Saw this confusion in other comments from other posts. For those that don't know, "tap" is a euphamism for "have sex with". It's fairly new to American slang. If you want to "tap that ass", you want to "fornicate with that girl". http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tap

[Big Dreams]

The abbot should daraba himself silly.

[Nick]

I'm sure that some other pedant has pointed this out, but Muslims don't translate the Koran into English. Generally, that is. Hence, the English translation of this or that word bears little resemblance to the meaning. The contextual meaning might be a better yardstick...

[gremikin]

Not that your blog isn't awesome and really hilarious, Scott, but I'm just posting to talk to someone else.

Mr. 'Carlos Michel' left a comment in a previous post that my website's link installed a virus on his computer. I, Gremikin, am stating in my defense that I am too dumb to make a virus, let alone sic it on people's computers.

But if I did...*realizes people are watching* no, wait, that doesn't help my case.

Gremikin is not a virus-er!

-Gremikin

P.S. However, in case anyone is reading this, I will still jump on the opportunity to promote my website.

http://www.freewebs.com/gremikin/

I have comics, although there's not that many and don't come out as often as I'd like.

[Sam Thornton]

But how many translations can dance on the the head of a pin?

[Kevin Moore]

Almost every word has a sufficiently defined (but probably expanding) range of meaning. The "range of meaning" simply being all the things one particular word might mean. Things like context (from the most immediate to the broadest), time in history when the referenced word was used, geographic location where the referenced word was used, the culture of the author and the audience where the word was being communicated from/to, et cetera all help us to properly interpret the meaning of a word's usage and consequentially a bunch of words put together, which form sentences, paragraphs, chapters, books, et cetera.

Properly interpreting a text is possible and continually moving towards the meaning of an author's intent is certainly possible (if this were not true, we would not waste our time reading the thoughts of others on weblogs). True meaning is not found in the comunity that interpets a text, but rather true meaning is found in the mind of the author, the author's intent (Notice, even though I just mispelled two words, you were still able to get at my meaning) Now, assuming there is a God and that this God has revealed Himself through the Holy books of one of the world's major religions, DO WE REALLY THINK THAT OUR ATTEMPTS TO JUSTIFY OUR ACTIONS TO THIS GOD, NOT TO MENTION OUR CONSCIENCE WHICH ACCUSES AND DEFENDS US, WILL BE ACCEPTABLE TO HIM, OR OUR CONSCIENCE, SIMPLY BECAUSE WE BROUGHT ZERO AMOUNT OF DILIGENCE TO OUR ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE MIGHT HAVE TO SAY TO US?

If we brought, at the minimum, the same amount of interest and intellect to interpreting the Bible or the Koran as we might to interpreting the joke being communicated in Scott's comic strip, this post would not even exist.

[just_human]

I think the typo was 'Sin on more' instead of 'Sin no more'. The guy who made the typo lost his printing press or some other form of punishment. I don't want to bother looking it up.

[aca]

To the commenters who don't know that much:

The New Testament was not written in Armaic.

It was also not written in Latin.

It was written in Greek.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_testament

[erik.fishead]

Commenting on the story posted here of the copying monk, I'm reminded of the story of one of the earliest printed bibles.

It stated:

"greater love hath no man than to this, that he lay down his wife for his friends".

[Screech]

Wow! Funny, but I'm afraid to read the other posts! I have a feeling, however, that the meaning is most likely linked to the use of the word. In short, the context must be taken into consideration. Just like English has words that have multiple meanings (tap...), based on cultural references at the time written or employed. Other languages will have the same thing.

Should a new "revelation" be released? Much like the Book of Mormon is to the Bible for LDS Members? That would be interesting...

[Dio]

I like the way you think.

[Dio]

I like the way you think.

[KiwiAtaahua]

Your world is a very strange place.

[Elliander]

Since the line says she should be abandoned in bed, My assumption is that the last line with 20 possible meanings is really seduce. As in, make her want it THAT badly, and then seduce her into changing her ways. It only makes sense, not just because it fits in the context, but also because beating tends to make people just a bit more rebellious. And Sex is a very effective weapon.

[Trotta]

Well, I am not a muslim, but as far as I know, there's nothing in the Koran that says the infidels must be killed.

[Zero]

[In spanish 'Te quiero' means both 'I love you' and 'I want you', like in 'I want a new car' ;)]
So? "I want you" (the literal translation) is the same in English. In both languages, without context, the second meaning is, however, awkward.

[Doug]

Diane-

It's slang, like "Faggot = Bundle of sticks." That type of thing.

[scavok]

Muslims are supposed to learn Arabic for the express purpose of studying the Koran in the language in which it was written. Translations of the Koran are not considered holy and cannot be used for worship or prayer purposes.

[Diana W]

Years ago I learned how important a single letter can be when I was learning Swedish and mixed up the word for Marry (gifta) with the word for Poison (gift). I asked someone if they were planning to poison their girlfriend. Does anyone really believe it's a coincidence the words are so similar?

BTW - April Fools Day is fast approaching and I need some suggestions!

[car free since '93]

A good example of ambiguous word meanings is the word "tap" for sex. I've never seen it used anywhere but here for that meaning. Personally, I think it a poor choice, especially for a writer. It makes sex sound about as exciting as joining the honor society. But I imagine it's another experiment to see how many of your minions you can sway to use a word in a previously nonexistent manner. Looks like plenty are willing to follow. I won't.
CFS '93

[Murgadroid]

I'm wondering about the words that have no real translation at all. The Greek word hubris (kind of) means excessive self-confidence, but we don't have a word for that in English. The Portuguese word saudade means a feeling of reminiscence or of missing someone or something. But we don't have a word that means the same thing. Imagine the escalation of errors over two or three translations of text.

[Walt K.]

If a thing such as God exists at all, he/she/it would have to have a terrific sense of humor.

Imagine being the chief Kahuna, and knowing that your "absolute truths" are interpreted, redacted, discussed, debated, and ultimately misinterpreted by a bunch of low-life humans, who in the end, can't agree on what you said, so they resort to killing each other in your name.

If this God is omniscient, as so many choose to believe, then God did this to us, deliberately.

Talk about the ultimte cosmic joke.

[mr_poopyhead]

i can imagine that somewhere in the world, people are pouring out into the streets firing AK-47s into the air, and holding up burning photos and effigies of scott adams. i suggest mr. adams, that you buy a bulletproof car.... seriously.

[namehere]

I'm so gonna show up at your funeral - and dance on your grave

[jerry w]

I remember something you wrote about the feeding of the remains of murder victims to pigs by lazy killers that didn’t want to have to clean up blood, transport the body, and dig holes. As I had noted in by blog last month, I used that as a base point for an idea to stop the suicide bombings. If someone was to take the blown up remains of suicide bombers and then feed the mess to the hogs and video tape the whole deal from the scrape up start to the flatulent finish, there would be an immediate end to the ongoing basic martyr creation once it aired on Al Jizzera. Just how many virgins would welcome a pile of hog shit to come in (so to speak) and spend eternity with them? Would Allah put out his hand, even his left one, to shake the non-halal hands or whatever else survived the blast after it passed through several feet of menudo?
Or, you could publish your new amended Quoran, Koran, however you want to spell it (I have the same problem with Channukkah, Hannuka, etc........) and hope for the best.

http://boskolives.wordpress.com/

It is true that terrorists are generally not relying on translations. Nevertheless, the article reveals that the problems inherent to translation reflect similar controversies between those who read the Q'ran in its original language. People simply don't always agree about the meaning of particular terms.

As a lawyer, I see this all the time. That's why contracts usually define important terms in the contract itself. The parties are also agreeing about what these terms mean in this agreement.

As a Christian, I see this all the time in the Bible. Textual analysis reveals that some books of the Bible are probably concatenations of older, separate texts which no longer exist. Some of the oldest sources we have are simply written records of longstanding oral traditions.

The vast majority of serious scholars recognize that