Delicious Conspiracy Theories

When I read The Da Vinci Code, I enjoyed it because I thought the historical information was based on fact. It wasn’t, and I’m glad I know that now. I’m doubly glad I didn’t know it when I read the book, as it would have spoiled the fun. Sometimes bullshit can be so delicious.

With that in mind, I recommend to you a movie on the Internet, available for free viewing, called Zeitgeist. It presents three entertaining arguments and ties them together:

1. The Bible is an obvious copy of earlier religions, designed to control the masses.

2. September 11th was staged by the U.S. government as a pretext for grabbing power and making money.

3. Rich bankers control the entire world.

Here’s the link, but don’t watch it until you have lots of quiet time to absorb it.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

The beauty of the movie is not in its truth, if indeed it has any. I don’t have the energy or desire to research it. What I found amazingly entertaining is how persuasive it is, even if it turns out to be entirely made up.

For example, I doubt September 11th was staged by the U.S. government. After all, we all saw the video of Bin Laden admitting he did it. How do you refute that? Well, the Zeitgeist movie shows a still frame of Bin Laden from that video next to a known photo of him, and they…don’t…have…the…same…nose.

That’s entertainment!

One possibility is that Bin Laden got a nose job. Or maybe it’s just the angle of the photograph, or maybe I only imagine they look that different, or maybe someone doctored the photo to promote the conspiracy argument. As I said, I don’t believe the allegations in the movie, but it’s loaded with great-yet-questionable evidence that is a joy to behold. If you’re looking for facts, I can’t recommend this movie because I don’t know what’s real and what isn’t. If you want some delicious alleged facts that sound convincing, you’ll love it.

I believe the intent of the movie is to alarm people into being more skeptical of their government. It had the opposite effect on me. It made me happy to think there might be a plan. If the war on terror is real, it scares the shit out of me. But if, as the movie claims, it’s entirely manufactured, and the war in Iraq is meant to be a permanent conflict to sell weapons and control oil – that is much less scary. It means the war will stay where it is and no one will “follow me home.”

It also means the nuclear bomb ambitions of Iran are a lie. That’s one less thing to worry about. All I have to do is stay out of the National Guard and invest my money in defense contractors and I’ll be safe and happy. Those shadowy rich guys are doing a great job!

I know you’ll send me links to web sites refuting key points in the movie. The arguments in those links will be impossible for a lazy guy like me to verify. But they might be entertaining, so send them anyway.

Comments

[Steve]

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way." - noted conspiracy theorist Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Read these:

The Empire of "The City": The Secret History of British Financial Power - Knuth
The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve - Griffin
Overthrow: America's Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq - Kinzer
Century Of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order - Engdahl
By Way of Deception & The Other Side of Deception - Ostrovsky
Future Fastforward: The Zionist Anglo-American Empire Meltdown - Chang

[Dog of Cable]

- Rich bankers control the world? Oh yeah, this is a stretch! Now way back in the 70's my line of work put me in contact with some very rich and powerful individuals in interesting ways. This one fellow in particular, who shall remain nameless, stood out more than others.

Let me attempt to set the scene of where this dude was coming from:
1. My entourage and myself stayed at his "guest" mansion in Palm Beach, as opposed to his mansions of residence in Palm Beach and Malibu;

2. Offspring of the Getty's, Vanderbilt's and the like 'slummed' it in the servant quarters of this place;

3. Some of his associates and drinking buddies went by names such as Kennedy, Johnson, Herriman and the like!

So one night he was bored I guess and came over to the "guest" mansion and broke out the good liquor and told me tales of power and events next to the water fountain in the study that would be considered back stories to major world news that put chills up my spine because it all sounded so plausible!

- The Bible stories based on earlier religious practices? Sure, why not! I believe the God needed to communicate with the early biblical era people in a manner they understood; and remember He also works in strange and mysterious ways. You have to also admit that part of the purpose of the Bible was to get an unruly mass of Bedouin society under control. I mean, He's God and he can do what ever he see fit to in order to get his message across! I'm just glad the messages are delivered more subtle manner these days than how it was delivered to Sodom and Gomorrah! With this in mind I very much buy into Mark Twain's' idea that God created man because he was disappointed in the monkeys!;

- and September 11th was staged by the U.S. government as a pretext for grabbing power, well DUH! I stand dumbfounded in how on earth the likes of Bin Laden and his homeys could have figured out all the details and timing to pull a thing like that off. Sounds so much like the Pearl Harbor revelations now coming to light, don't you think? Can it be proven if it is true? Not in today's world I'm afraid. As sorry as it may sound to some, sometimes hanging with the devil you know as opposed to the devil you don't know is more comforting in a very sorry way....

[partgypsy]

If it's true what the conspiracists say,
personally feel that flying 2 jet fueled planes into the buildings AND blowing them up with explosives was a bit of overkill. Why not one or the other?

[bloodrage bob]

ah, what the heck. let's whip this dead horse some more. back to 9-11 conspiracies that i just learned about! did y'all know the BBC reported the collapse of WTC7 (the "salomon bldg") 23 minutes before it fell? but hey - don't take MY word for it.

google "bbc reports wtc7 collapse too soon", and you'll find a myriad of sites that'll show you video and screen shots of a BBC infobabe doing a standup in front of lower manhattan, telling the limeys back home that "[wtc7] has collapsed". the problem is, wtc7 is *standing* right behind her head, tall & proud & quite vertical.

*that's* some compelling video, gang. the BBC, bush-haters all, issued some very odd replies to queries about this (evidently recently-discovered) phenomenon. they assure us that
A) the infobabe was not standing in front of a blue screen. what we saw is what was there.
B) but she "really doesn't remember" who told her about the collapse.
C) never mind the fact that 9-11 was & will always be the pinnacle of her reporting career.
D) the fact she lost her live feed to london 5 minutes before WTC7 actually *did* fall is just a coincidence.
E) the fact the beeb has "lost the tapes" of this report is also merely just a coincidence.
F) but we may all rest assured that there is no conspiracy.
aaaand, G) besides, 23 minutes is merely a nanosecond in "geological time".

now, it's entirely possible these vids are phony. *entirely* possible. they can be found on the same internet that assures us that male appendages can be stretched to equine lengths & girths just by taking special pills. but if they're real .... well then ....

then why isn't this on every front page? which might be as big a conspiracy as 9-11 itself. **if it's real**, the same democrats and the same mainstream media that despises bush & co. isn't talking about it? **isn't** using it?? the same new york times that ran 43 consecutive days of front-page abu ghraib stories *doesn't* think THIS is newsworthy???

hell, tom, maybe you're onto something after all.

[bloodrage bob]

"many americans *know* jfk/rfk/mlk" were whacked by the democrat-controlled US government, tom? they **know** this?

"all the other intel svcs & govts know the real sroty about who did 9-11"?? wow! you must be really hooked into "all the other intelligence services and governments", huh? rolodex a foot thick; private cell numbers of "all" the directors and ministers; deeply imbedded into "all" the intel/government old-boy networks, eh? you're an amazing fellow, tom.

otherwise, you'd be just another internet guy repeating things he's "heard on the net from some guy", and attempting to dress it up by claiming access to info & intel that mere ordinary folks can't have. we all know THAT'S no way to win the argument.

[Tom]

Many Americans know that JFK, RFK, MLK and other assassinations were inside jobs. JFK’s triangulation murder involved hundreds and nobody “ratted” that out in any substantial way, although Jack Ruby was close before he was found dead in his cell and dozens of deaths surrounded the case.
The fundamental difficulty is not really disbelief about the ability to keep conspiracy secrets but disbelief that U.S. government officials could really collaborate in attacking America and take all those innocent lives at the World Trade Center. But this is naïve. First, government is the instrument of social compulsion. Organized force is what government does. The belief that soft-hearted people rise to the top in government is akin to the belief that softies were whipping masters on slave plantations. Second, setting WTC bombs could easily have been contracted out to Mossad, otherwise known as “executioner to the world.” Killing? It’s what we do (because this is “life or death for Israel,” blah, blah). Third, people are taught that they control their government and live in a duh-mocracy but all governments are run by insiders, usually permanent and dominated by the paymasters. When policy or personnel really matter, international bankers call the tune for modern governments daily dependent on them for new loans and refinance of the old. These financiers look out for themselves and believe in a New World Order, a one-government world, and have no allegiance to America or its founding principles. Fourth, the U.S. military oath requires an oath-taker to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” The enemy within the gate is key today, whether called conspiracy or not, not the enemy outside.
Skepticism about conspiracy, small or large, is somewhat beside the point in the case of 9/11, because the official Osama & 19 Arabs conspiracy tale is so farcical and impossible. The analysis is out there and in a few dozen books, although the mainstream media ignores it all. Only government could have pulled off a psy-op this big, not a rag-tag band of Arab incompetents with no visible means of support repeatedly running afoul of law enforcement in the field.
All the other intelligence services and governments know the real story about who did 9/11. It is like an elephant in the living room, studiously ignored by insiders who keep quiet about it. After thorough exposure via the Downing Street memo and other irrefutable evidence about the Bush-Cheney lies to justify invading Iraq, it takes a lot to remain ignorant about 9/11. It is not about a conspiracy too large to work. Ignorance increasingly has to be willful.

[Tom]

Roby, It seems I struck a nerve. Because I cited examples of US and Nazi Germany false flag terrorism does not imply those are the only countries who have engaged in state-sponsored provocations. I simply cited more familiar examples. Because I did not mention the ones high on Roby’s list in no way implies that they are off limits.
You assume too much.

[Roby Bang]

Realistically, most real conspiracies can be traced, because no one can hide the truth forever. Watergate was found, classified articles about MK Ultra and Project Stargate have been found. The government experimented with LSD and syphilis on black males.
If we know about these supposed conspiracies, why isn't there any solid sources of the info, and why didn't the shadow government just snipe them off for knowing too much? If they are really planning world domination, why didn't they just act on it when the world was just isolated to Europe than wait thousands of years, many first world nations, and millions of people later when it would be harder to do so? How do we know if they aren't doing it now, and fabricating new conspiracies to keep us busy while they're doing whatever shadow governments do?

[bloodrage bob]

can't help but notice, tom, that all your instances of state-sponsored provocations all seem to center on either nazi germany or the US. did teacher neglect to mention the myriad atrocities & provocations committed by the gentle communist nations of the world? or asian nations? or african nations?

would teacher frown on mentioning the state-sponsored provocations/exhortations to genocide in rwanda and darfur as 'excessively racist and provocative'? or is it that ONLY the US and nazi germany (an illustrative pairing, btw) have done these things? have you forgotten how the kind, caring socialists of russia blew up some apartment buildings to justify their chechen war a few years back? did you forget that japan declared their rape of manchuria, korea, and china in the '30's to be 'a just response to acts of aggression against them'?

do you - like "most americans", as you so condescendingly inform us - do you have a "mental block" about thinking critically and making (the dreaded) value judgements about countries that **aren't** nazi germany or the US?

i'm just *sayin'*, is all.

[Richard]

I've visited the "Zeitgeistmovie"-website. Some additional material, a "contact"-page etc. But: I've found no name, nowhere! The site seems to be completely anonimous.

I've sent the guy - or his group, or whatever - an email, telling him/them
"Since I believe that personal responsability is the very basis and starting point for any positive action for the human society, I think that it just doesn't fit together: a website calling the people to wake up and act as undependent, responsable persons, being anonimous itself. It is the opposite of trustworthyness. I didn't do any research on your arguments yet, but I'm afraid it will stay that way as long as your website is anonimous."

In fact, I would have been interested to do some research on the first part of the movie, since I am not religious at all myself, quite the contrary (not unusual here in Europe). But if somebody criticizes secret manipulations and has not the guts zu show his own face, I get the feeling it is not worth it to put energy in this.
Apart from that: Scott is right about one thing: the movie is so well made, it is very entertaining to see how well all that strange material has been cooked together.

[Tom]

More Americans doubt the 9/11 story every week, but many still have a mental block against rational examination of the evidence about 9/11. The possibility that it was an inside job is a non-starter for them.
They might as well just say: “I’d rather cling to the official 9/11 myth” = “If mass murderers run free, I’m fine with that” = “If 9/11 was an inside job, then I’m ruled by monsters and I might have to do something about it, I’d rather watch Paris Hilton.”
When bad things happen on a large scale, chances are that an important group of people wanted them to happen and made them happen.
Governments throughout history have provoked or staged attacks on their own people to serve the powers behind the throne (“the money power”), glorify themselves, engage in vast government spending, reward friends, exert domestic control, stimulate the juices of war, annex neighbors and pursue vast geo-strategic rearrangements (the “global domination project”).
Here are a few examples:

• Nero burned Rome to blame the Christans A.D. 64
• US provoked Mexican-American war 1846
• USS Maine sinking 1898
• Lusitania sinking 1915
• Reichstag fire 1933
• Hitler’s staged attack on the Gleiwitz radio station 1939
• The “surprise attack” at Pearl Harbor 1941
• Bay of Pigs conspiracy 1961
• Operation Northwoods 1962
• LBJ’s Gulf of Tonkin conspiracy 1964
• Kuwaiti baby incubator hoax 1991
• Bush Jr.’s 9/11, yellow cake and WMD scams

...to name a few.

[Yash]

Right !! Everything on the internet can't be trusted.

[CDriK]

You seem to forget that Ben Laden is mandated by the CIA.

That's why he has been told to recognize 9/11 attacks on video.

[bloodrage bob]

*fascinating* movie. propaganda, to be sure, but then you can say that about "inconvenient truth", too. they're trying to sell you on their POV, just like gore did.

i've been saying 'something stinks about 9-11' for years now, mostly die to the WTC7 collapse. small fire; no jet fuel; fell precisely in its own footprint; "fell due to poor construction" yet they *didn't sue the contractor and then rehired hired the exact same guys to rebuild it*; yadda yadda. maybe i'm supersmart, maybe i'm a tinfoil hat loon. time will tell.

but here's the rub on (government) conspiracies: there are 2 fundamental problems that haunt all gummint conspiracy theories - preparation & chatty folks. in the case of 9-11, *if* charges brought down those towers, it would have required **massive**, very PUBLIC prepwork. google highrise demo sometime: it demands dozens if not hundreds of explosive charges drilled into walls, and dozens of great big thick steel cables drilled into walls to pull everything inwards as the bldg falls. that's very visible. putting "cutting thermite charges" on the core pillars of each floor would have made a LOT of noise. made a mess, too: how do you get at core pillars without ripping up walls?

as i understand it, the trade centers were pretty well-occupied and busy. *someone* would have noticed all that prepwork.

also, people LOVE to talk. bush's administration is notoriously leaky. the MSM had literally thousands of abu ghraib photos, photos bush would have preferred to be kept secret. clinton's admin was just as leaky. etc etc. a massive conspiracy as alleged in the movie would require hundreds of folks to be involved. yet they ALL stay mum? forever? doubt it. the same CIA who managed the bay of pigs debacle (under the guidance of the sainted JFK, btw); who had exactly "zero" korean speakers in the seoul station *during the korean war*; who had no clue the berlin wall would come down till they saw it on CNN - THOSE guys pulled off 9-11??? doubt it. the same CIA who *lives* to leak bad stuff about bush?? so they gave us plame & wilson, but forgot to mention the 9-11 conspiracy?? riiiiight.

still, *something* stinks. wtc7 fell at freefall speed into its own footprint "as a result of a small fire". the pentagon & shanksville planes "disintegrated completely". NORAD was all over payne stewart's plane, but missed 4 hijacked heavies. (and how exactly did they take the cockpits? a former 747 pilot has told me that everyone in the cockpit has a 'hijack button' of their own. trouble? they're "trained to push that button first." **no** 9-11 planes got off a hijack signal. why?)

"confused"? moi?? saaaay, is it possible this bleeds into another conspiracy? could the "greys" be responsible for this? or the rothschilds & rockefellers?

[corrine]

This post is so weird. Its opposite from what you would normally write.

[corrine]

This post is so weird. It's totally the opposite of what you normally write.

[Tin hat man]

Whenever people talk about Bin Laden and how we have yet to catch him it makes me think of the Dread Pirate Roberts in "The Princess Bride." For the unfortunate people who have not seen the movie, there are several people who have played the part of the Dread Pirate Roberts over the years. Every so often the person would retire and pick another person to play the part. It’s the name that keeps people frightened, not the actual person. I bet the "real" Bin Laden was killed several years ago and many different people have shown up on videos claming to be him.

As for the conspiracy, everyone knows it was really the Knights Templar.

[Leonel]

"In the Hole to China", by Paul Craig Roberts

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts08082007.html

[Matt]

To nipplingbeast:

You seem to have a lot of free time.

[cristen]

PS I see the coffee swilling beaver made it past the censors...I still prefer the one where he was coked up or whatever it was...

[Cristen]

@Will Von Whatever: Not having yet read all the previous comments, which may have already made this point, noone is saying the towers fell through pure impact and building fire. What destroyed them was a massive explosion of gallons and gallons of jet fuel blowing through their entire structure. This is unprecedented, and had not been planned for when the buildings were erected.

Scott: I love that your comments are listed latest first: it means that when I visit the blog late on, I have a chance of writing a comment that might get read.

[Oddity]

We were watching this thing on the SciFi channel last night - same thing. They're after this mysterious man-eating bird. You know the entire thing is bullshit, that the radio communications were dubbed in later to make it seem "spookier", etc. etc. but that didn't stop us from watching.

Unfortunately, our pitiful lives are based upon perception, and we're forced to believe what is thrown at us as long as we deem it credible. I'm not stupid enough to believe that my government - or anyone else - tells me the truth all the time. In fact, I'm more of the cynical type that believes that most people will lie reguarly for their own selfish agenda.

Not that I can blame them.

"No honey, that dress looks fabulous on you!" is certainly going to get you more action than "It's not the dress with the problem dear..."

But the problem with relgion and 9/11 is that there exists at least enough, if not a lot, of missing information, so our imagination fills in the void. Some of it is plausible, possibly true.

And some of it would make for good man-eating bird hunting television.

[Esn]

After watching the first 10 minutes (I do plan to watch the rest),

I must admit that this movie is very good at using the techniques of propaganda. The last movie I saw which was this "persuasive" was Triumph of the Will (which documented the Nuremberg Rally).

I found this tendency that it had of trying to lead me by the nose to every conclusion annoying, to be honest. Showing two things one after the other (as it does in the introduction repeatedly) is a low-brow way of making the viewer reach a conclusion without making him think rationally.

I hope it gets better...

[T.G.]

For the 9-11 issue i strongly believe that the buildings fell for the planes and the fire. That is because i am a firm believer in the power of stupidity to dismiss small issues, the hidden compromises, the weak link of the underpaid low-end worker yet the one that put that humble but crucial part that needs a little bit of attention, and the power of overall arrogance that would hide the pity truth for whatever makes look good. To me this is the simplest and more reasonable explanation, at least when you saw some world and how humans really are.

[sam]

[@Sam

about the tinfoil hat... weren't there guys at MIT (might be another institute in the US i'm not entirely sure) who examined the screening of a tin foil hat of radio waves and found that it really amplifies the intensity just below the hat. And so instead of shielding, it rather works like an antenna :-) Now that is some useful research]

Now that's what I call irony! (or maybe that should be 'tinny' *groan*) I just posted the link as a resonse to all those here who seem to believe in any of the conspiracy theories - seemed more succinct that expaining it all; I don't actually BELIEVE in conspiracy theories at all. Any of them. Or at least certainly no more than I believe in what the gorvernment or media touts as 'truth'.

I just thought is was quite hilarious, that's all...

xox

[Will Von Wizzlepig]

The old 9/11 issue, yet again.

If the three WTC buildings that fell on 9/11 did so as a result of nothing more than the planes and fires, I'll eat my hat.

I guess that doesn't carry much weight. I am just some random weblog comment poster.

I think, though, if you actually look into what happened, you would likely agree with me. But then that would make you a 'consipracy nut', too. Especially since that would imply a LOT which is hard to explain.

Three modern steel and concrete skyscrapers fell as a result of plane damage and fire within 12 hours of each other, when the two that were struck were designed to resist such a hit, and no steel and concrete skyscraper has ever fallen down because of fire, even fires which burned for DAYS.

It's practically fit for the Guinness Book of World Records.

The rest of the world has not been bombarded with the media propaganda we have. They don't buy it either.

But never mind, my lazy fellow American. You're over it. You don't want to think about it. You're fine with our country killing innocent Iraqis (in addition to the guilty ones) over a war which should never have been. Go click on the intarwebs see what Britney is up to this week.

Or maybe watch this clip of Cheney explaining why we didn't go to Baghdad in 1994:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I

[Andi]

Quoted from Doonesbert: "You doubt? So you are telling us you think it's possible our government flew passenger planes into buildings"

Weren't you listening to Scott a week or so ago? He said it's impossible for a mere mortal to be 100% certain of anything. Therefore, of course he thinks it's /possible/ that our government staged 9/11.

[ripplingbeast]

Scott, you've declared that you feel good about someone in authority using lies to start a war of imperial aggression.

If you're a moist robot, your programming is so full of bad sectors it's amazing you can eat with a fork without serious injury. If you're not a moist robot, as I contend, but morally responsible for your choices, you're despicable. Really. Do us a favor; have them remove your feeding tube. In this area, the facts of the conspiracy or non-conspiracy are irrelevant: you are evil to the core of your selfish, childish little heart, to be happy that others are being so horribly killed and their babies turned into nightmare monsters with depleted uranium, for the pathetic needle-dick-who-wishes-he-had-a-big-dick political system called "empire."

And don't try to dodge by telling us that post was satire, either. That was a lie on your Mexican post, and I'm pre-emptively disqualifying it here. Don't try it.

Click these links and see the horror being visited on unborn infants so you can rest in peace that the war is really about empire, not terrorism:

http://www.rense.com/general70/deathmde.htm

http://www.rense.com/general35/perp.htm

You look at those horribly deformed babies, and tell me that it's better than ANYTHING. It isn't. Had I the power, I would cheerfully give my own life to end this horror. And for those of you who lied about me and called me White Supremacist, notice that I just stated that I would give my life to save brown babies, and I mean it. Shows what you know, dumbfucks.

Better still, had I the power, I would give the lives of those who created and supported this horror to end it. Scott, by supporting this, you have, in my book, committed a crime worthy of death. No one deserves this. No one. That's not a threat; I have no authority to sentence you. But if I had that authority, I would, in a heartbeat.

YOU, Scott, are murdering those children, by supporting the empire and everything it stands for. I've read a lot of what you've written, and you have yet to deviate from the party line, like a common presstitute. Just as it boggles the mind that a conspiracy so huge as to take down the WTC could happen, it boggles the mind that such a large group as a political leadership could actually be right all the time, yet you have no difficulty swallowing that idea. Why is one possible but the other not? They're equal stretches of credulity, so explain it, would you, please, so us mere morons who depend on verifiable facts can know whom to trust? Woodja? Pleez?

And the rest of you...tell me something. How is it that the steel that was used at the WTC was tested by Underwriters' Laboratories before the building was built, and did NOT EVEN SOFTEN at 2300 degrees, yet the relatively cool fires of jet fuel melted them? How is it that the WTC was built with a seven-fold safety factor, which means you could stack six more WTCs on top of it, yet the weight of a couple dozen floors, "suddenly unsupported," brought down all the others? Please explain those two little items, so that I know that I am dealing with intelligent life. Anyone; hop in here; enlighten me.

I'm not offering any conspiracy theory, I'm just sniffing the conspiracy theory offered by the government, and it stinks to high heaven. There are other shit-globs in it, too. How is it that five of the nineteen hijackers have been positively identified by authorities as being alive in other parts of the world and having never been on those planes, yet the official story hasn't been modified to exclude them? Hmmm? Anyone? It's awfully quiet in here...how about this little question: How is it that the Army's lab has completed the DNA analysis of all the little bits of goo picked up from Flight 93 in Shanksville, and positively identified everyone on that plane, and there were absolutely no Arabs on board at all? Anyone? Please?

Or, as was earlier mentioned, why does the FBI have Osama on their Top Ten Most Wanted list, but not for 9-11, and freely admits that they have no evidence linking him to 9-11? Please? I really want to trust my government, but I'm not willing to move to the Land of Make-Believe to do so, so help me out, here, somebody, give me some explanations for these little problems that make sense, would you?

If you're going to offer a conspiracy theory, like our dear government has, please offer one that fits the known facts. Goatherds who couldn't fly a paper airplane, who were Islamic Fundamentalists YET who just happened to drink heavily at titty bars (big-time NO-NOs according to Islam...) and leave Korans strewn about in their wake, and most of whom have been proven to have been on distant parts of the planet when the events went down, does NOT fit the known facts, nor does it make sense to anyone with three funtioning brain cells.

So somebody, please, offer me some explanations that don't involve suspending the laws of physics. Or admit that the conspiracy theory offered by the government, and used as the excuse to cluster-bomb children and poison a huge part of the world with Depleted Uranium, is a lie. You can't have it both ways.

[Andrew]

Ok Scott,

Time to plug the movie which will actually wake your audience up:
LOOSECHANGE2.

Go

[mal]

Where has the movie gone ?
The link doesn't work for me anymore

[Dale Lane]

The zeitgeistmovie website is no longer available

If you want to watch the video before the site is back, it was embedding a Google video clip which is still available at http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331

D

[Christoph Jekins]

For those who didn't have the zeitgeistmovie website work, you can see it in crappy quality on tv-links.co.uk in the documentary section

[Pat Curley]

While I can understand that people find conspiracy theories amusing and entertaining, keep in mind that the 9-11 kooks are accusing high government and military officials of plotting the murder of thousands of people.

As for the Bin Laden nose, that has been debunked. The video was originally recorded in PAL format (common outside the USA). When it was converted to VHS, the effect was to scrunch things down a bit.

[pierre]

"No, Scott, the intent of the movie is to inspire Americans to commit their lives to terrorism, and in the meantime, to undermine support for the war on terror." - WCE

hahahaha.
Now, this is some serious conspiracy theorist here.
Or someone just got a cognitive dissonance wake up call.
Dance, Monkey. Dance.

[pierre]

I watched the movie, but now the site is down.
How's that for a conspiracy theory ?
Kudos for stirring the cognitive dissonance in so much of your readers on so many topics.

[Dee]

Posted by: Becky | August 16, 2007 at 04:11 AM

The fear caused by 9/11 did make the President look better for awhile as everyone cowered in their closets. As if he, or any president, could actually protect us from such outlandish events.

Remember his political ad for the next election? The poor little girl whose mother died at the WTC. The little girl says: "all he wants to do is keep me safe". How sad to politicize the loss of a little girl's mother.

I have researched the 9/11 hijackers a lot from several sources including the FBI and the 9/11 Commission report.

Not one of the 19 hijackers was from Iraq. The majority were Saudi nationals. Yet Rice has been working on an arms sale deal to the Saudis that could eventually total $20 billion. Hmmmm. Selling arms to a country that supplied the majority of the hijackers who attacked us on United States soil. Interesting to say the least. But hey. There's $20 billion to be made. That's the really important thing, isn't it?

Al Quaeda (whatever the current spelling is today) was not an influential force in Iraq and was not in cahoots with Saddam Hussein.

Conspiracy theories aside, please tell me again why we invaded Iraq when they had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack. If oil, money and no-bid contracts to Halliburton aren't part of the reason for invasion, what is the real reason? And why did Halliburton relocate their headquarters to Dubai?

I'm open to a reasonable explanation here if anyone has one.

[Jez]

I rather enjoyed the movie. The religious bit was totally full of shit, such as the suggestion of a link between "sun of God" and "son of God", but convincing on the point of emerging dogma being influenced by prevalent ideas. The other bits I'm skeptical of, but all in all I agree with you on the entertainment value and the general persuasiveness of the narrative.

WCE posting here is probably not so wide of the mark in saying it adds to the canon of agitprop, but there are enough conspiracy theorists out there to cast doubt on the assumption that this is terrorist propaganda in the mould of "Shadows". Whether or not it is designed as agitprop, I am inclined to think that whether Islamists are radicalised by international bankers using religion for their own ends or by an organic assortment of Muslims, this movie will not help. If you are familiar with terrorist agitprop you won't discount the possibility. The producer does apparently issue a reasonable disclaimer, so there's a good chance it's just fun from his perspective. I can't verify that now as the zeitgeistmovie website has presently mysteriously vanished.

For most of us this is just well made entertainment not to be swallowed whole, much like most any movie.

[Rich]

" It made me happy to think there might be a plan. If the war on terror is real, it scares the shit out of me. But if, as the movie claims, it’s entirely manufactured, and the war in Iraq is meant to be a permanent conflict to sell weapons and control oil – that is much less scary. It means the war will stay where it is and no one will “follow me home.”"

And americans are getting killed "over there" for money. Cool!

[functioning moral compass]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush (the section on War Seizures Controversy)

The Glomar Explorer was successfully covert. A ship was purpose-built for a secret mission that the Bad Guys believed was impossible, and managed to carry out the mission before its cover was blown. Since all they wanted was information, it didn't matter if the "truth" eventually came out. Furthermore, serious spies don't expect gains from this sort of thing to last. Not a conspiracy.

The attempted coup in 1932? Fell apart in the early planning stage. This is in fact a canonical example of why conspiracies are impossible to maintain. You gotta pull in co-conspirators, and the more people you recruit, the greater the chance of exposure. If you have to get outside your initial core, you're screwed.

Perhaps only successful conspiracies are impossible.

[Doonesbert]

"For example, I doubt September 11th was staged by the U.S. government." You doubt? So you are telling us you think it's possible our government flew passenger planes into buildings, since you don't know for sure who did it. Really sane, there, Scott. Or are you just trying to rile us again?

[Jon]

The strip is great today. I love Wally's philosophy.

Wally for President!

[tlylect]

Years from now it will come out. Flight 93 was shot down... And no need for chips in your passports, they are already in your body. Did you really think you need all those vaccines as a child? Sleep well and know that the NSA is watching over you.

[MattStrange]

"functioning moral compass" - that post was brilliant

[jim]

[It wasn’t, and I’m glad I know that now.]

Huh? Why are you glad you know that it was lies (ok...lies and 1/2 truths) now? Just wondering how that changed your life in any way?

[LA Clay]

The old saying is actually a Ben Franklin quote "Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead"

[rita mae]

Scott, don't have any quiet time to watch your link. Will trust your judgment for now, and check it out later.

Roswell landings, JFK assination, Area 51, alien abduction ..... (Brett)

Eve talked to a snake? (Lucky)

The CIA asked you to post this story. (Jamey)

Got my tinfoil hat on. (sam)

Don't forget we didn't land on the moon. (drummerjoe)

God, I love your blog. Only in America!

Scott, still love you, still too old to stalk you.

Rita Mae

[WCE]

"I believe the intent of the movie is to alarm people into being more skeptical of their government."

No, Scott, the intent of the movie is to inspire Americans to commit their lives to terrorism, and in the meantime, to undermine support for the war on terror.

And by promoting this video, advertizing it to your readers, suggesting that they view this crap, you're increasing the number of chances they have of recruiting a few more psychopaths to strap explosives to themselves and kill as many innocent Americans as possible.

I know you're going to defend your action here by citing the qualifications of "the DilbertBlog reader", but it isn't the normal people I'm worried about, it's the abnormal, and they're 5% of every group that you can think of. Statistically, you've just increased the political base supporting terrorists, just by suggesting people view this piece of crap.

[Robert Roaldi]

The reason they can't find Bin Laden is because he shaved and is now a tenured professor of Islamic studies at a correspondence university in northern California. He loves to surf in his spare time. I swear it's true.

[Arby]

Don’t mean to be a party-pooper but, conspiracy theories bore me. They are just theory (look up the word) and are more about the teller than the tale itself. There are so many other wonderful reads in fiction, the classics and about real life, ideas and people that are far more socially redeeming, instructional and fun to contemplate. But the National Inquirer mentality will always be there and as a diversion once in awhile fine, but for serious consideration……get a life. I like donuts, but after the first few, yuck!

[Hunter]

I invested 5 minutes watching this film, nothing said, just a series of images set to music. That's 5 minutes I won't get back.

[Leandro]

Since we are on the topic of conspiracy, has everyone here seen that Epic Googlezon video? That's what I call a geek conspiracy. Here's the link for the update Epic 2015 video. I don't think that there is an Epic 2016 video out:

http://epic.makingithappen.co.uk/new-master1.html

[Dalebert]

Isn't it possible that some is true and some isn't? It doesn't take a conspiracy for some things to happen, like the way our monetary system favors the federal banks and sux for the regular consumer. If government, i.e. the privilege of using force without consequences, is for sell, and it has been for some time, then wealthy people just looking after their own interests will inevitably see that as a great investment.

[techy]

Dan Brown clearly states the 'facts' he uses in his books right in the front of the story he tells. It was a page turner to me and I've read all of his books. Truly fasinating that someone could take these facts and come up with theories like he constructs. It is a free country. Enjoy the fiction for what it is...stories told wrapped around 'facts'.

[Chris]

@Sam

about the tinfoil hat... weren't there guys at MIT (might be another institute in the US i'm not entirely sure) who examined the screening of a tin foil hat of radio waves and found that it really amplifies the intensity just below the hat. And so instead of shielding, it rather works like an antenna :-) Now that is some useful research

[james]

FYI Osama denied any involvement of the attacks on September 16th. From PBS Flashpoints:

September 16, 2001
Osama bin Laden denies any involvement in the 9/11 attacks in a statement to Al Jazeera television, saying, "I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons."

Source: http://www.pbs.org/flashpointsusa/20040629/infocus/topic_01/timeline_sep2001.html

Another interesting fact is that Osama is not on the FBI most wanted list for involvement in the 9/11 attacks. He is only wanted for embassy bombings.

Source: http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

Ask yourself why this is before you assume it was Osama who planned and executed the 9/11 attacks. Then ask yourself if he really did it, why haven't we caught him yet?

[David Stewart]

I loved it!

Like all documentaries in this vein you know it'll be sensationalist at best and downright biased at worst. But if its aim is to make people think more, then mission accomplished. You can't watch it without it leading to some sort of thought, so that puts it in an entirely different league to your average Vin Diesel outing.

One thing that does seem unbelievable is that, despite all it's attention online, it does not have an entry on wikipedia. The reason cited was that it has received no 'mainstream press' attention. Which strikes me as a somewhat hypocritical viewpoint for an online, user-generated Encyclopaedia.

I work on a small(ish) magazine here in the UK called the Wiltshire Ocelot. It's a 48-page monthly glossy magazine with a readership of around 25,000 in the North Wilts area. I'm not sure if we qualify as mainstream - though i'd like to think we could at least help this movie be known a little more, regardless of people's opinions on its accuracy.

However, our main problem is getting hold of the creators for an interview - there are no contact links on the site (temporarily disabled) and no one else has been able to help me. perhaps one of the Dilbert fans can point me in the creators direction?

thanks a lot guys -and long may this blog continue to light up my mornings.

Dave

[Becky]

If 9/11 was actually planned by the American government I like to think they'd have made the President come out looking better. I like to think that part of that elaborate plan included, "When we whisper in your ear at the photo-op STOP READING and act like you're getting to work."

Ah, but I also like to think that people are generally nice and considerate and are just hiding it (really well) under protective layers of stress. So what do I know?

[Chugga]

[He does have a point, but it's like our mind chooses how to be decieved. Whereas it thinks that there's a slight chance that cars might transform into robots, it still knows scientists aren't that hot in real life and the small detail kinda ruins the whole experience.]

I know it's a bit off topic, but as this is a popular but pretty major misconception so i thought i'd point it out. I'm doing science at melbourne university in australia at the moment, and though i don't claim any sort of unusual attractiveness you should see some of my tutors.
Particularly in computer science actually, the hot scientist from transformers wouldn't be more unusual than she would be anywhere else.

[Ed]

Delicious B.S." is nothing new, but now I'm getting the
same kick I used to get by watching people who believed
that professional wrestling is “real” by watching people
who believe anything Al Gore or Michael Moore say
is “real”. The people are the same but the magnitude
of the B.S. has enlarged breathtakingly.

[Sacha]

Many people talks about "conspiracy theory" as a sort of religious matter: You "believe" or not in them as a whole.

Conspiracy happens everywhere… 2 companies arranging prices, you and your colleague trying to make your boss take an specific decision giving him just part of the information, etc. etc. etc. … What makes anybody believe that it does not happen at government level when what is at stake is not who takes holidays the first 2 weeks of August but power over things and people?

IMO it’s just a matter of statistics after all. How many people are in politics with some reasonable real power? What percentage might think the limit of immorality of a certain action is somewhere beyond the benefit?
How many of them will go further and talk other people with some power as well into reaching the same goal/benefit? …

If your answer is anything but cero you have a conspiracy.

[braise_allah]

I knew The DaVinci Code was bullshit all along, and it especially bothered me that the author has such a tin ear and is so culturally illiterate, that one of the masters who had to perform the rite was the French poet Jean Cocteau. If Dan Brown knew anything at all about French lit., he would have known that Cocteau, a flaming fegele, not that there's anything wrong with that, wouldn't have been able to do anything like that with a woman, much less in front of all those people. It was a fun read anyway, but I was amazed that I knew so many otherwise smart people who took it seriously in any way.

[stefan]

scott,

watching the movie i'm asking myself, did the maker pay royalties for all the samples he used?

stefan

[Harry Krak]

This is the real 'spare change' video:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=af07

Also, I have been following you all this time and you have never noticed? I must do it fewer in future.

[Tom Gao]

Oh, and I'm also a sulky la la pansy who loves to complain.

I forgot to mention this in my previous comment.

btw - since we're talking 911, there's also that crap about Notredamus predicting the whole event and some lunatic also saw the devils face in the explosion. I thought it looked like Mel Brooks.

cya

[Tom Gao]

This blog has nothing to do with the sub-prime mortgage market! Why is there no mention of the sub-prime mortgage market? I want to talk about the sub-prime mortgage market and how credit risk is killing equity holders around the globe (me included). Doesn't anybody out there have a loan, mortgage or even shares?

Leverage and margin lending can be fun if you try hard enough. I hate religion and everything associated with it ever since getting a mind dump of all this "god" talk from this blog.

[Gnat]

The problem is that subintelligent persons don't know what's fact, what's fiction, what's delusion and what's intentionally misleading. They see it on TV, therefore it must be right. Critical thinking and analysis is not something that comes naturally to them.

And not just this movie, which I won't bother watching, but also misleading documentaries about moon landings, reality TV, 'scientific' movies like Jurassic Park and so on.

[Mark]

"2. Idiot ignores organizations such as the American Society of Civil Engineers, NIST, etc., who tell him that steel just has to weaken due to thermal expansion and not melt to cause a structural collapse.

Posted by: Shnu"

So why, if this is soooo obvious, did they forget about it when they BUILT THE FRIGGING THING!!!

I can understand that explanation of why it happened but when they decided when constructing the towers to use a metal shell rather than the normal concrete with steel rods, why did they not think then "oh, all it needs to do is expand and it will fall apart"?

Either NIST et al are Idiots, culpable for the three thousand dead, or that answer is wrong.

Take your pick.

[Lymonhead]

I watched the movie up until they started showing stuff about 911 so far. I have a bachelor's degree in religion. One of the things that doesn't pass the sniff test is that all of the precursors to Jesus in this story were born on December 25th. That seems EXTREMELY unlikely. I did a little research and so far have found nothing on the Egyptian god's birthday. It seems that such a HUGE coincidence would have been broadly publicized. If it weren't for small things like this in the story, it would be a little more believable.

Furthermore, the assertion that the Bible is "nothing more" than an astrological book is ridiculous. I don't think an astrological myth or whatever is supposed to have more history in it than anything having to do with stars. At another point in the story, the narrator says "in the passages dealing with astrology", basically saying there aren't many passages about that and we checked all of them for this one thing... I haven't seen a lot of astrology books that are mostly stories about morality, though I'm sure there are some. My point about history is stronger.

As for Josephus, I see that one of the Jesus passages out of 2 has been hotly contested since the 17th century. This would be a pretty big conclusion because Christians use the contested Josephus passage quite a bit in my experience to give historical authenticity from a non-Christian source to Jesus' life and so on. The other passage could be about someone else because I think it just mentions "Christ" and there were supposedly other people running around saying they were the messiah back then. If for some reason it said Jesus, then that is even less important since that was just a name, basically like Joshua nowadays (or Josh).

As for all of these precursors to Jesus, it is highly possible or even probable the storytellers used a LOT of leeway to make their implications, such as in the birthday example I already mentioned. 12 was certainly an important number in the Bible. 12 tribes (which really became 14), 12 apostles/ disciples. However, 7 is also an important number and so is 3. Actually, both of those numbers are more important (and 40 is another important number). Anyway, some fundamentalist Christians see these precursors as "types of Jesus". The idea that the devil planted them before Jesus is a bit zealous. However, they are explained as being kind of like foreshadowing. For example, the story of Joseph in the Hebrew Bible being like Jesus in the New Testament.

As for Gilgamesh and some of the other older works, it is widely accepted that there were other stories of a flood and that there are other stories of a resurrection - as with Dionysus I think. I think Christianity is easily explained as a morph between Hebrew and Greek religion. However, most fundamentalist Christians would say that the truth is the Hebrew story and it was just explained in a Greek light or something along those lines. For example, the New Testament was written in Greek so those thought patterns were used when it was written to Greek readers, etc. A lot of the early Christians were Hellenistic.

There are a lot of other things I could comment on from this movie, Zeitgeist. The interesting part for me was the religion information. It has spurred on some more study for me now in an area I sometimes feel like there is nothing more to learn in. As for 911 conspiracies, I have seen enough documentaries and what-not about things of that nature... Finally, as for saying that fundamentalist Christians, or some fundamentalist Christians think the world is 12,000 years old or something of that nature. I would say that is true maybe for 50% of them and fundamentalists are probably 20% of the people who claim to be Christians, maybe more like 15%. The vast majority of Christians, I think, think the world is much older than 12,000 years. That gets into a whole lot of other stuff I don't have time for right now.

[wolfizzi]

I'm always imagining my own conspiracy theories, to make what I observe in the world seem logical. I think ancient peoples did this and ... voila - religion!

The difference is that sometimes my theories get corroborated after the fact. It's interesting to see some of the other commenter's pet conspiracy theories. I had developed my own theories about oil companies supporting global warming to get at the petrol products in the arctic. I also independently imagined the proliferation if internet viruses and worms at the hands of the companies who profit from selling protection against such things. I can envision drug companies starting rumors of avian flu and other diseases.

Here's one you might not have heard. Back in the early part of the year 2000 a gallon of gas was about $1.20 per gallon. As the presidential election got nearer the cost mysteriously rose to over $1.50. People were outraged! Imagine, $1.50 for gas! The team that was trying to elect W. Bush, at that time, blamed the increase on the Clinton administration and the Democrats, stating that the problem was due to a lack of a strategic energy plan. Clinton made some noise about investigating the price gouging, and eventually released a token amount of oil from the strategic reserve. That caused prices to go down some, but not all the way to where they had been. Bush people played up the "failure of the Democrats" to good effect, and a lot of people bought it.

At this time I concocted my own theory that goes like this. Bush's friends and backers are all in the oil industry. They want him elected 100 percent, so they would be willing to take some risk to help him get elected. After all they donated millions to his campaign. If they could just agree to a little cooperation, they could manipulate the gasoline market to cause embarrassment to the Democrats, helping Bush get elected in a tight race. I mentioned this theory to a friend of mine who worked for a large oil company, and he laughed it off.

A couple of weeks later, at a Halloween party, my friend came over and apologized for laughing, claiming that my theory was all too true. It seems he told another friend about the theory. The friend was a pilot for the big oil company, and he had flown a group of executives from several different oil companies to Houston on the corporate jet. On the flight the execs were laughing about pulling off the conspiracy. You see, the really funny part was that while we dupes were helping big oil record (then) record profits, the companies were plowing some of the extra money they were raking in, into the Bush campaign to spread the word about the failure of the Democrats to have a "strategic energy policy."

Since then I have been somewhat slower to completely write off my own crazy conspiracy theories. By the way, Scott, how did I do on my theory about why you want to help Scott Meyer. (see yesterday's comments.)

[Nir]

If anyone wants to know why conspiracy theories are so persuasive - the explanation is rather simple and very interesting.

You can read it here:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/08/conspiracy_theo.html

[PerfectInperfection]

The conspiracy theories I ever read were from these wacky books written by dirty self-indulgent guys back in the old days. It begin with the hilarious Torah, the sequel the Bible, and darker scary Koran.

Very disturbing conspiracies written by very suspect individuals.

[Ferran]

"the war in Iraq is meant to be a permanent conflict to sell weapons and control oil – that is much less scary"
Really???
Having a president that scares you to convince you to pay more money to increase the budget to buy more weapons. This is less scary?
Making your country the main manufacturer and supplier of weapons, not signing the UN treaty against antiperson mines and then giving speeches about peace and democracy. That is less scary?
Can you imagine trying to live a simple life with your wife and children, and then a whole fucking war comes to your country, and kills all your family, and all because of the fucking oil!! How would you feel about that country?That is less scary?
And btw, those massive destruction weapons are not anywhere, but nobody has taken responsibility for that.
Note that everything I said is nothing like a conspiracy theory, those are just plain facts.
To me, Scott, that is freakingly scary.

[ashish]

I will watch this movie from home later, but it reminds me of the mainstream movie "V for Vendetta" made a year or so ago.

Might seem innocuous at the first watch, but there are a lot of subtle messages that basically imply the same thing...is it good to trust the government always?

worth a watch!

[Paris]

As a rule, I believe half of what I see, less of what I hear.

Any fanatic will argue any point tenaciously. And if he's a good debater, he will be convincing. That's his job as a fanatic.

Whenever I see stuff like this, my first response is, ok, but what does the other side have to say?

[chuck]

How did you manage to watch the whole thing?
It could use some serious editing.
The first 5 minutes was nothing except a series of quick cuts with a rousing musical score. I've seen more depth in a Britney Spears video.

Then the title appears, followed by a short rant. Then 3 minutes of a George Carlin bit were stolen. He should sue.

Then a few minutes where we're told that there have been dozens of religions that all were based on the idea of a messiah-figure born on Dec 25th. Naturally it overlooked the fact that the modern calendar didn't exist until much later.

At that point I got bored and went back to surfing for porn.

[Bill]

South Park: Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
Season 10, Episode 148.

The government is biggest promoter of conspiracy theory websites because it makes them look competent.

[Srinath]

Scott is trying to assess how many are out there, on a scale of 0-1 (0; Can't tell the difference between GUI front end and GSD back end -- GSD stands for German Shepherd Dog, 1; Congenitally Dumb) , who know about the reasons for Sub Prime Mortgage Crash,How much US borrows (never mind about payback time!!) to pay interest on previous borrowings and of course about 9/11 ?

Since Bin Laden did it ( he did a video shoot to admit his noradic brilliance; breath taking evidence and humility!!) Don't u think it is normal for such a humble Bin Laden to shoot a video of the first plane hitting Tower 1, as a clinching evidence; May be some one else did the Video shoot and forgot to give it to the conspiracy theory chipmunks!! Or perhaps it is waiting to be declassified after 20 yesrs! I love that passport that fell from one of the planes as an additional evidence.

World being controlled by few people is no conspiracy. World has been controlled by wealthy kings or wealthy corporate confusopolies (credit to Scott Adams from Dilbert Future book) or wealthy bankers. Name top 10 privately held banks in US (including Fed reserve, which is a private bank) and try to find out who holds the bucks by the balls.

[Matthew Kovich]

I know that Christianity is a health mix of Judaism and Mithraism.

So it's the inbred great grandson of early, pre-monotheistic Zoroastrianism.

[Dan T.]

You know, The Da Vinci Code was one of the best-selling American fiction books of all time. People seem awfully quick to disavow having liked it but clearly it was a story that struck a chord with a lot of us.

And of course, it's impossible to know for sure what is true and what is not in history. It was not written objectively and which accounts are deemed to be "correct" is not choosen objectively.

[Klaus]

Bankers do not control America
Cheyney - great guy
Kissinger - greater guy
We were attacked because of our freedoms.
Bush is in control.
Deibold equals accuracy.
Israel does not shape our foreign policy.
Hillary will save the day.
Global warming. It's our choice
Bill O'Rielly: He's looking out for you
Sean Hannity - a good American
Flouride in our water helps us think
Mercury in children's vaccinne's makes them smarter
America is soaring.
Now go back to sleep

[Sondra]

In case there's a chance that you are going to hell, here's what you can expect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJA9RPX9mRY

[Steven McDaniel]

"Christians are the most gullible folks on earth.
They actually believe that a man was born from a virgin, that Jonah was swallowed by a whale, that Eve talked to a snake, that Noah got on a boat with 2 of each kind of animals. Why aren't you making fun of these funny facts?
...I'm not gonna post links because you have a lazy brain as you stated and it's hard to convince sheep to do anything....You are obviously not bright enough to see that the Christians are the ones who backed the Nazi's, wiped out the Mayan culture, murdered countless people during the Crusades, and they have a perfect record of corruption.
HITLER AND THE NAZI'S WERE CHRISTIANS ... LOOK IT UP ... LAZY ASSES. Most Christians try to deny this. Funny how they are so misguided." Lucky [the headbanging monkey]

If I just wanted to make atheists look foolish, I would simply get people to read your post, Lucky, but as I'm feeling chatty, let me make a few comments here. 1. You are probably embarrassing your fellow atheists, as you're just like Christopher Hitchins with PMS. 2. Here we go again! Visit this planet, and discover that Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, Stalin, Fidel Castro Enva Hoxa, Ho Chi Min, et al (all self professed ATHEISTS) were responsible for more murders this century than any 'Christians' including 'brother' Hitler or the Popes, in all of history. 3. It is just as well you don't give us any informative websites, as when presented with a teaspoonful of dung, why do you think I would really want to seek the bottom it came from anyway? If you had a quality argument, you might pique my interest, but otherwise, forget it! 4. It is more gullible to believe this universe could have got here all by itself than to believe the miracles of the Bible. DMD.

[Jason Allen]

Shnu stated "...but it would be a lot nicer if we didn't have these parasitic enablers around."

Do you mean the idiotic conspiracy theorists or the idiotic voters influenced by them?

[Jason Allen]

I wouldn't watch Zeitgeist for the same reason I didn't watch/read The Di Vinci Code. I can't watch/read something supposedly "based on a true story" if I know much about the subject. The inconsistencies and intentional fiction stab at my brain like a thousand tiny little daggers. When I read, it is either wholly fiction or wholly documentary.

I don't by into that 911 conspiracy crap. Not even the Bush administration (as a whole) could be so evil as to carry out such an attack for political gain. Of course 20 years ago no one would have believed the CIA would sell drugs in inner city neighborhoods to fund illegal activities or that the US military would spray dangerous chemicals onto an unsuspecting populous from roof tops to study the affects. In the past 30 years, our government has done horrible things to its own people under the flimsy guise of protecting them.

[brooke]

This film seems as manipulative as the Bush government. Check out the clarifications page, why don't they correct these 'mistakes' in the actual film. It not a high-tech film, most of the thing is text and voice overs. Write some new text, record some new voice overs. Yep, I think they did it on purpose. I also don't like how they don't provide sources for many of their quotes.
I am not a fan of Bush or the people who support him, but this video is just as manipulative, exaggerated and uses similar scare tactics. The only difference is that it's not coming from a place of authority and power.

[Adrian]

...and then they realize that it was Dr. Doom the whole time, and every major world leader is a Marvel/DC Comics bad guy, but there is an underground rebellion force, composed of random Comic Superheroes...

BULL....SHIT!!!!

[James]

Booo! Are you scared now!? It wasn't me who said it though, it was a ghost conjured up in you puny mind that said it! Now you are scared!!!!!

[Khoj]

Its not spam : http://xkcd.com/258/ ... its just funny... if you know about software and open-source and all that.

[Sandra Kahn]

Not to worry, this is not about truth seekers or conspiracy theories. It’s not about the long list of anomalies and discrepancies in the official story of 9/11. It’s not even about the undeniable fact that the events of 9/11 gave George Bush and his handlers the keys to the neocon kingdom of empire. It really is not.

What it’s about is the strangest phenomenon I can recall in my entire adult life. It’s about what I perceive to be an extraordinary lapse in the logic of millions of otherwise sensible Americans. And it’s about something I cannot wrap my mind around, no matter how I try. Maybe someone out there can help me understand what’s going on.

In preface, let me also say that this is not about being uninformed. Granted, the corporate media have suppressed any discussion, debate or investigative reporting about the attacks on the United States that purportedly ‘changed everything.’ That reality aside, even the most fawn-like pundits on the airwaves understand that the ship of state is sinking, and that it is time to challenge the lies of this administration. But, it seems that lie after lie has become fair game for disclosure, or at least for some discussion at this point. As a result, each day, the American people in larger and larger numbers understand that they have been taken for a terrible and costly ride by the lies they were told by this President and his cohorts.

That is, every lie but one.

Finally, nearly seven years after a stolen election that was itself based on lies, greater numbers of Americans are no longer blindly accepting the talking points emanating from the White House as the Gospel truth. In more and more media outlets the Bush lies are openly being identified as such, - rather than by every other euphemism meant to soften the ugliness of a government lying to its people. If people are not totally convinced, at least they hear debates and discussions and competing viewpoints. If nothing else, they are beginning to have doubts about the daily mantras that had them mesmerized for so long.

So let’s take a look at just the short list of these lies, so as better to understand my dilemma about the lone holdout: 9/11. Bear with me:

At this point in time, many, if not most Americans know that the men and women in the Bush White House clearly and deliberately LIED to them, both by omission and commission about:

- The Bush connection to the bin Laden family.

- Escorting dozens of members of the bin Laden family out of US after 9/11

- The Patriot Act having been written decades before 9/11

- The call for a ‘new Pearl Harbor’ by the neocons who orchestrated the wars

- A totally invalid and false connection between Iraq and the ‘War on Terror

- Regular, politically timed terror alerts

- Toxic air quality at Ground Zero after 9/11

- The ‘junk science’ of Global Warming and its effects around the globe

- WH orders to suppress and politicize reports on by the Surgeon General

- Plans for wars with Iraq and Afghanistan that were made before 9/11

- Saddam Hussein’s possession of WMD

- Saddam Hussein’s connection to Al Qaeda

- Saddam Hussein’s involvement in 9/11

- Saddam Hussein’s threat to the US or his neighbors

- Having NO plans for an extended occupation of Iraq or for keeping the peace

- Inadequate armor and supplies for our men and women in uniform

- Supposed ‘progress’ in Iraq, time after time

- Fudged numbers of civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq

- The staged ‘toppling’ of Saddam’s statue

- The staged rescue of Jessica Lynch

- The lies about Pat Tillman’s death by friendly fire

- Illegal warrantless spying on US citizens

- Torture at Abu Ghraib and other prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan

- Rendition of detainees to other countries for torture

- Outing Valerie Plame as a CIA operative

- White House involvement in the firing of federal prosecutors…

There are so many more lies to list, but I think you get the idea.

Am I wrong to believe that in any other life situation there would be a different reaction to a series of important lies? If you became aware that your plumber or your neighbor or your doctor, or anyone at all in your life lied to you over and over and over about issues that were relevant to your well being, would you ever again believe ANYTHING that person said to you? I really don’t think so.

So, after becoming aware of lie after lie after lie by Bushco, why would anyone in his or her right mind FULLY EMBRACE THE OFFICIAL STORY OF WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11 WITHOUT A SINGLE QUESTION? Why would anyone in the United Sates of America conclude that the official version of the most important event in recent American history AS TOLD BY PROVEN LIARS is true?

Help me out here, please.

It makes no sense to me at all. Especially, since the most telling part of all this illogic is this: NONE OF THE LIES ON THE ABOVE LIST WOULD HAVE BEEN NECESSARY OR EVEN POSSIBLE WERE IT NOT FOR AN UNSWERVING ACCEPTANCE BY MOST AMERICANS OF THE OFFICIAL VERSION OF 9/11.

Bottom line: I fully understand how difficult it is to believe anything other than the official government story of 9/11. The editor of TvNewsLIES.org has examined the reasons behind the refusal of so many Americans to believe the mounds of evidence that challenge the credibility of the story we have been told. Fine and good.

But, frankly, for the purpose of this article, your personal opinion about who was responsible for 9/11 is irrelevant. It makes no difference at all. What matters is that we examine the strange illogic that stops millions of Americans from questioning a possible lie – one that may matter more than any other. These same Americans now seem willing to openly question many of the lies that are told and repeated ad nauseam by the President and his clan. They are now for more skeptical about their messages and far more hesitant to believe anything George W. Bush tells them in his speeches and press conferences.

But they still will not consider for a moment that the official story of 9/11 as told by this lying government may also be a lie. Ergo, the illogic I cannot understand..

The official story of 9/11 has been told by professional, experienced, and successful liars.
Think about that as you try to explain the need to believe it.

Maybe it will take another 9/11, as we’ve recently been warned may happen very soon, to convince Americans that the most egregious and damaging of all the lies told by the Bush administration must not remain off limits.

We really have few choices left. We have to reach that logical moment when we can openly discuss and debate and examine the available information about 9/11, no matter what the outcome may be. We have to retrieve our collective abilities to examine the events of that day. Perhaps, then, we finally can say about the lies we have heard….:

…and then there were none.

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/07/28/p18514#more18514

[Tony]

SCOTT. YOU NEVER MENTION WTC-7
SCOTT. YOU NEVER MENTION WTC-7
SCOTT. YOU NEVER MENTION WTC-7:

Your comment made me laugh.
"After all, we all saw the video of Bin Laden admitting he did it. How do you refute that?"
Based on your logic, the guy who confessed to killing Jon Bennet Ramsey should be in prison.
The 9-11 conspiracy stuff is a mixed bag. Like the movie Zeitgeist, there is truth mixed with manure. How do you separate? The masters of spin hope most brain dead American's won't. Kind of how Scott did here in his clever post. Fuel the delusion: We're fighting for freedom. The Muslim's hate us because of our freedoms.
I mean, that is like so true. That is why Bush is taking our freedoms away. I mean, how could we not like give up freedom for like more security...its so worth it, you know?

Believe the cooperate owned media. The White House brokered some high dollar deals with our media to bring you "the truth." Believe in government funded organizations, like NIST.
Ignore the fact that fire has never caused steel frame buildings to drop at free fall speeds. Never. On 9-11, 3 fell, free-fall speed, pulverized into dust. A fairy tales sponsored by GE, White Westinghouse, and Universal pictures.
The anomolies which surround 9-11 don't prove our government "staged the attacks", but they certainly point to complicity in some very high places.
Scott will keep fueling the delusion as long as it pays his mortgage. Who can fault a man for that?
PS: The Da Vinci Code was crap.
I have a chip in my brain.

[Nicki Lagrange]

"conspiracy theories are the fantasies of cowards"

[Tim Martin]

Never Take Your Eyes Off the Money

[rd]

delicious illustration of your blog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQqihv0yO3E

[Matt Parkins]

This is what the producer of Zeitgeist says about his movie (from http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/statement.htm):

"...It is my hope that people will not take what is said
in the film as the truth..."

LOL @ this brouhaha.

[Hammertyme]

Why is everyone so concerned about the Iranian nuclear program even though they've repeatedly declared it's for peaceful energy purposes and not worried of the Israeli one. Israel had nuclear weapons since the early 80s and is publicly denying it, and is refusing to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Why is Israel so important to the western world, and not the other countries?
==========================================================

The whole "We will exterminate the entire population of Israel and have always intended to control the middle east" thing for some strange reason makes people nervious.

[Ian Tompson]

I think you have missed the subterfuge in this presentation Scott, or maybe you haven’t and are testing us to see if we will spot it. This is an example of what I call “negative bundling” in which, in order to discredit a theory, it is bundled along with other obviously incorrect theories and they are all “tarred with the same brush” and assessed as wrong. Let me draw you a parallel to illustrate this:

1. Moist robots have no free will
2. Homeopathy cures illnesses
3. The Flying Spaghetti Monster controls the universe

If I presented these three as my genuine beliefs, you would consider the last two as cr*p, and automatically discredit me as an irrational person, even though we know the first theory to be correct. In the same way, the first statement in your summary of Zeitgeist is in fact true, but because it was bundled with unlikely conspiracy theories, people will automatically assume the author is irrational so all his opinions are irrational, including the first.

There is also a tactic used by crystal gazers which I call “positive bundling” in which scientific facts are presented along with woo woo in order to give credence to the woo. The obvious example of this is the vomit-inducing movie called “What the bleep do we know?”

Ian

[TWood]

I can't understand why the 9/11 truthers always include controlled demolition of the buildings in their narrative. That's an instant clue of derangement that destroys all credibility. It takes a lot of people working on a building for weeks tearing out walls, weakening columns, and attaching lots of charges with lots of cables connecting them all. And this was all done without anyone noticing? Bleah.

[Matt]

I am also a complete sucker for a good conspiracy theory, they are just so entertaining. I always seem to have Dogbert in the back of my head saying "Occam's Razor".

A good conspiracy theory needs to have just enough facts to appear plausible, but have one really nutty component just to make it entertaining.

That was the best thing about the whole DaVinci code thing where all the facts and evidence were so well put together but the base premise was so nutty. Come on, everyone knows there was never a real guy called Jesus.

:)

[Kevin Kunreuther]

You trying to cure me of being a delusional, pessimistic, paranoid, depressed doomsday-preaching kind of guy? I have my own conspiracy recipes to fester and boil, don't go throwin' someone else's ingredients into my soup, it's barely palatable as it is. Maybe a pinch more of rhetoric. And a little garlic.

[Guy]

Scott,

I have to appreciate conspiracy theories for a simple reason. It's a nice way of revealing who the not-so-bright people in our midst are. On our streets, in our lunchrooms, even on network news, people are wearing their idiocy like a badge of honor.

Thanks to all for exposing themselves. Come to think of it, might this be a conspiracy?

[Okgenuine]

I liked it, except for the last 10 minutes which seemed like propaganda. If they hadn't used the word revolution at the end, I would've taken it more seriously. That word always makes me cringe.

That Alex Jones guy is clearly meant to enrage me, and I can't stand him. Especially him attacking Michael Moore who isn't a 'revolution' type guy as far as I know. He just wants things to change through the normal processes like voting. I haven't seen Sicko yet, but I doubt it will enrage me. It'll just be edgy and informative. No revolution stuff.

[Michael Repplinger]

After watching it, I rather thought this Zeitgeist flick had a somewhat feverish overall style, and was not really too effective.

[~C4Chaos]

here are some links. you asked for it :)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6811621718806539208

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8680553475303217901

~C

[frankly]

here is what I have against crackpot movies like this:

Some really nasty people made a really nasty movie about the siege at Waco. It 'proved' the US govt. set fire to the Koresh compound. The telling scene is an armored vehicle pulling back after punching a hole in the wall. It appears as if flames are coming out of the vehicle. if you run the film just a second more you see that it is really foil insulation.

Rev Pat Robertson sold this video to make money. One of the nutbags that bought it, watched it and believed it was little Timmy McVey. He felt so strongly about what he saw he decided to get even and blow up the Federal Court house in OK City.

There are too many sick f*ks out there to be amused by these things.

I think the most interesting point to be made about this movie is how it can be interpreted by the people who view it based on their pre-existing bias. Take the "government caused Sep. 11" section: there are two types of people who would believe this blather: those who are pre-disposed to believe that "the shadow government" is really behind such things, and those who believe the current president is behind such things.

In the former case, it doesn't matter who is in the White House. In the latter, belief absolutely depends on who is in the White House. The same people who will post here (and elsewhere) to say that 9/11 was all George Bush's secret plan would refute this as conspiratorial nonsense