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« The Meaning of Meaning | Main | Happiness Formula Wiki »

Comments

n

The question is - should intolerence be tolerated?

Aditya Simha

Cool! Now, tell me this: are there any hot chick-terrorists who would be willing to seduce an infidel like myself? That I would be game for! Bearded blokes, kindly apply elsewhere!

OlioBandito

Ibin Iblis

The postee name follows the comments not heads it. Another example of misquotes perhaps.

brian

you realise of course that ,until the crusades, jews and christians were not considered infidels. the prophet mohammed is supposed to have stayed in the house of of arab jews when he was in hiding. this is all fecked up. some sort of dialog needs to be set up with the muslim world.

brian

Dude you keep on writing things like that they are going to get you .... your going to need to help me find a backup comic.

TheMan

Hey Scott, I DARE you to write a similar funny article about Jews.

Zeya

That s a wonderful idea.. Only if wirld was easy game. Every religon has some form of anamolous beliefs. So i would say it may be hurtful to non-militant muslim to read this. I am not muslim but I do respect all religion. I think disparaging any other religon is equivalent to abusing someone's parents. SO i think cracking humour on it is not good idea.

Sulaiman Ahmad

Ignorance and Stupidity.

You don't think that people asked about what this verse meant when it was revealed? Why don't try to see how it was interpreted and *practised* AT THE TIME it was revealed.

In every prayer we pray, all Muslims ask "(O Allah) Guide us to the straight path --- the path of those whom you favour and not of those of who earn your wrath nor those have gone astray."

SCOTT, you look at Islam with a prejudice. The Truth is clear, you just choose to cloud your eyesight.

I don't expect this to change you whatsoever. My job is not to change anyone, but simply to pass on the Message of Truth.

http://www.IslamTomorrow.com/

[Says the guy who prays to invisible friends... - Scott]

Peter

As was indicated in the article this is not a new view.

http://www.crescentlife.com/thisthat/feminist%20muslims/beating_women_yuksel.htm

If she has problems with that bit she's going to have real problems when she gets to the bit about "the fire that never stops burning."

N.B. The Qu'ran isn't like the Bible, i.e. a load of stuff stuck together, but is, (if you're a muslim), the _literal_ word of God. No wriggle room, no debate, no "filtering through a prophet".

Gavin

I think, Evil HR Kitty, that the mountain pass / entrance to walled city translation idea was made up, basically. The camel / rope bit may be more of a question, but I believe it's generally agreed that Jesus meant it's impossible for a rich man to get into heaven. I have heard it said that the 'difficulty' in translation was created to enable rich people to feel OK about being rich, even though their Saviour chap goes on and on about how being rich is pretty much akin to being evil. This slight change has allowed millions of Americans to feel OK about themselves and not at all hypocritical when they go on about understanding the Bible and the word of Jesus, etc.

Basically, Christians are crap at Christianity. Atheists would do a much better job.

Petra

The problem here is understanding when translating any language to another there will be inconsistence words if the translator is not totally fluent in the languages. Language in the written form over time gets transmuted in it's context, this makes translating the written language even more difficult, in the example you use the word "daraba" in modern Arabic terms can mean different things as you noted. In terms of a translation from the Old World Arabic (think 650-700 AD) as written to Modern English the translator has to look at the context the word "daraba" was used in. Then perhaps the translator would translate the word correctly. The understanding part of this goes much deeper. First the Qur'an has not changed from how Muhammad wrote what Allah had revealed to him (If the Islamic Historians are truly correct). So, The Qur'an is literally the word of God as spoken by God so, once translated it would immediately ceases to be the literal word of God, and hence cannot be equated with the Qur'an in it's original Arabic form. Has the original verses in Muhammad's lifetime were not written down and were revised by Muhammad. The true text of the Qur'an only ever resided in the head of Muhammad and as he had his follower memorize it. After Muhammand's death the text was not even written down until the caliphate of Abu Bakr. 'Uthman later order a rescension of the of the text to be made to server as the definitive written form of the text. 'Uthman however did not just relied on the oral texts of Muslims who memorized it durning the lifetime of Muhammad by he also had the written text ordered by Abu Bakr. All Modern copies of the Qur'an come from the 'Uthmanic Rescension, and it is this version of the Qur'an considered as the holy text of Islam.
As the text and context is from a time that is basically 1357 years ago we must consider the changes to the Arabic language over that period. Even most Modern Muslims understand that the Arabic language in the Qur'an is 1357 years old and try to make the adjustments when needed. In other ones everyone needs to live in the present and get out of the past, 1357 years of evolution and learning the words of god need to be shown in forms and methods other then AK-47's and suicide bombers.

Squiggy

That Koran is punny.

brother52

re:

Did you know the Arabic word for 'Martyr' is the same word for 'Homosexual'? Many believe that the Ku'ran was simply stating that those who die practicing same sex relations will be punished with 72 female virgins. It's like queer hell.

Queer hell?
Same sex relations applies to females too...

If you want a real punishment think of the 72 mothers-in-law...

marge

Scott-This doesn't have anything to do with what you wrote today, although I find this whole topic extremely interesting. We all know the Pope some time long ago changed the New Testement to fit the needs of the Catholic Church at the time. Who knows if what's being translated is even what was originally written?

Anyways, I'm doing your thing where you write down your intention 15 times a day. I'd really love it if you give me your personal guarantee that it's going to work. Please? It would make me feel so much better, although writing the intention is making me feel better in and of itself.

Mike

Like any other so-called religious texts. The Koran/King James/Talmud/ and any if not all of the apocryphal writings were written with a serious bent to the current political wave of the time. Language changes over time and the way we use words change dramatically from region to region. If anyone really completely understood the true meaning of life and spirituality they would be miraculous beings. In that, they would be impossible to ignore because of their greatness.
So far I have not seen greatness in any corner of the world brought forward by ANYONES writings. Mostly, it has spawned enterprising clerics that use the rhetoric to increase their status and exert control over a certain section of the populous. All religion of any sort fall under this heading. Face it folks. Organized religion is a sham and a hoax perpetrated by those who have a certain agenda. That of which is far from trying to bring people closer to "God". They pick and choose which lessons from their own texts that they are willing to propagate. Any text that violates their selfish purpose is flatly ignored or re-translated to mean what they want it to mean. I do apologize if this entry is offensive to some but let’s all get our heads out of the sand and realize the hoax and build a better world.. without the lies and deception.

Melanie


I don't have any sympathy for Laleh Bakhtiar. The article quotes her as saying, "I couldn't believe that God would sanction harming another human being except in war." In other words, she believes that God sanctions war and the harm that is done to human beings during war. (Of course, she probably has no sympathy whatsoever for the infidels to whom that would apply.)

That being the case, maybe her God favors harming women, too. Perhaps she should quit rebelling against the concept and take her punishment.

you'd what?!

00h dilbert has a new boss.

needing new material? :P

MrBongo

Devon's got it right...great post.

I urge all who truly want to understand the mind-set of a Muslim and what truly drives the mid-east conflict to read 'Islam and the Jews, the Unfinished Battle'

HALiverpool

I don't have time to read ALL of the comments today, but I saw that more than one person pointed out that most Muslims read the Koran in their native Arabic. Therefore it isn't translated for them. Even if a book is read in its original language by a native speaker, in its entirety, so that context isn't lost, it is subject to interpretation. That's why people go to their chosen house of worship and refer to their religious leaders… to be aided in proper interpretation of their religious texts. Hence the popular saying, "No two people ever read the same book."

I’d even go so far as to say that, if more than one person reads this comment, they will have at least two opinions about what it means.

-HAL

ibn iblis

OlioBandito: "Oh, and the Quran doesn't say anything about killing infidels... that's not even a misinterpretation of the Quran... it's more just some power hungry leader's idea for getting more power."

I would have posted links for the verses below but this blog thinks I'm spamming in that case.
http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/quranindex.html
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

The quran is (according to itself):
a clear book (5:15), easy to understand (44:58 , 54:22 , 54:32, 54:40), explained in detail (6:114), conveyed clearly (5:16, 10:15), with "no doubt" in it (2:1).

so here goes:

I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (8.12)

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (9.5)

And slay them wherever ye catch them (2.191)

And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression (2.193)

Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you (2.216)

Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah (3.28)

Then fight in Allah’s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment. (4.84)

Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (69.30)

They (the unbelievers) should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (5.33)

So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them herewith with a great endeavour. (25.52)

The 'prophet' has also said:
"Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

a summary:
http://www.humanists.net/alisina/quran_teaches.htm

Dmitry Z

Borjes's nightmare of the innumerable versions of the same books is reality, apparently. Since one cannot know everything and have an opinion on everything, living a moral life is then, a balancing act between own sense of goodness and societal values. More tricky, as once close societies become transparent and intertwined.

Evil HR Kitty

D.Mented

Nah, it wasn't a rope passing through the eye of a needle (just as impossible as a camel, just a much less interesting image). Actually, it's the eye of the needle bit that has changed.

Apparently a very narrow mountain pass was known as an eye of a needle. So not impossible for a rich man to go to heaven, but certainly his chances aren't looking good.

Natalia

I love it when they say, "Leave politics to politicians," as if we never had and didn't get ourselves into the bombing of Hiroshima, the war in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. This pretentious attitude is funny. And sad. Mostly funny though.

Karima

This is a hillarious post, but you really have no idea what are you talking about...

HelloOldBean

"Well, I am not a muslim, but as far as I know, there's nothing in the Koran that says the infidels must be killed." (Elliander)

There are over 270 verses in the Qu'ran that command violence against infidels. Have a look at Surah 9 aya 5 for a start. Then look at this video by Jay Smith of Pfander Films.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlhNAEClzZw

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