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Pure_BY

This is a very nice "miltimedia map" about World War II in USSR. You can view it online, or download it to your UH. About 4—5 hours of reading, supported by multimedia content (like interviews with veterans, official documents, etc.). Recommend it to everyone who is interested in part the USSR took in the World War II: http://english.pobediteli.ru/

adora

I'm often surprised that Americans don't know that the surrender of the Japanese is also part of WWII.
I was told that the Japanese in the Philippines hold up long after the A-bomb hit Hiroshima because the troop didn't get the email. It is often said that they hide all the stolen Chinese treasures in the Philippines, including Ghengis Kahn's remains.

I think Churchill's UK did most of the work, but the a-bomb scared the crap out of the Nazi so they stopped immediately. Should there been no bomb, the war would still end on the effort of the Brits. Americans just helped speed it up. (We Chinese have a theory that Americans didn't A-bomb Germans because they are white.)

It's like I've been drafting all week and my boss came and drew 2 lines and tell everyone he did it...

Sergent sider

Canada Won u can quote on that!

Tomasz

As a Polish WWII veteran grandson, I can tell that United States was really good and necessary help, but no more than that.

Rich Scales

"Some Britons maintain a slightly more robust view of history (misquoted from I forget where) - "that the Americans don't join a war until they can see which side will win".

pretty much right lofi, also, the Americans wouldnt have even gotten involved if not for Pearl harbor.

Blaire is an idiot for springing to their aid with Iraq. History shows, Brits NEVER get assistance on their own merit (Falklands, WW1 etc) always latecomers (opps I mean Americans) join in to "win the war" when its already won

Rich Scales

Another thing for certain, As stated by Churchill, Russa was not to be trusted. US agreed to give Stalin (another murderer in the war) land and power after the warm for assisting in the war.
Hence the cold war occured.
Churchill warned of this, no one listened.

Rich Scales

Most German generals knew by 1941 that Germany wasnt going to win the war. 2 things beat Germany. The Russian winter, and the sheer defiance of Britain who totally REFUSED to back down. The US didnt even get involved until almost 2 and a half years into the war, think about it. Germany PLOUGHED through europe like it was nothing. Holland , Poland, France, but couldnt beat the true winner of the War, the UK.
Also, people say Hitler was the biggest murderer in the war, perhaps that is true. However, part of that credit should go to Truman, for murdering the civilians in Nagasaki (perhaps not Hiroshima, and the results were unknown) but Nagasaki was plain and outright murder.

Paul C

Hi Canadian: not quite true, although there's an interesting sidelight on your lot in WW2. When Canadian troops started to arive in Britain in the summer of 1940, they were seen to be ten times physically fitter, harder, stronger and more military competent than their British counterparts. (According to an elderly female relative talking about her mis-spent youth "Before the Yanks came over we had the Canadians. They weren't exactly overpaid, but they were oversexed and over here, and as far as we were concerned, two out of three ain't bad")

But breaking the Italian Wall? In the six months of Monte Cassino, the British tried and failed; the Americans tried and failed; the British tried again and failed, then the Americans got another kicking; then we let the Poles have a go and those guys REALLY hated the Germans, enough to knock a great big hole in the German line that the Canadians then exploited as the breakthrough force. So credit where it's due, you couldn't have done it without the Poles!

Grey Ghost

"We broke the Italian wall when Italy was invaded, something no other country could really do. (I don't think US was in there yet...)"

This comment by "Canadian" is not, I hope, representative of how WW2 history is taught in Canada. The invasion of Sicily (July 1943 - 20 months after the US entered the war) was commanded by US general Dwight D. Eisenhower, and the Americans suffered almost four times as many casualties as the Canadians. The invasion of mainland Italy in September 1943 was also a joint venture, with British and American troops from Sicily and North Africa.

Canadian

Not to burst any of your little bubbles of happiness, but the Canadians were actually amazing forces in both WW 1 and 2. We stopped the entire European continent from Germanism in WWI by bridging a gap in the battle of some woods. There was a massive gap because the French upped and ran off when they saw the Germans. There weren't enough soldiers from other countries to fill the gap, so the Germans could waltz right on through. Then some Canadians plugged the hole and the waltzing Germans. On to WWII.
In WWII, the Canadians were considered "elite shock troops". We broke the Italian wall when Italy was invaded, something no other country could really do. (I don't think US was in there yet...) So that's how Canada saved civilisation. Oh, and we were the convoys for the American equipment, so without us, there would have been less equpment due to U-Boats.
I think that no one really won WWII because Russia lost (Too many soldiers died), Germany, Italy and Japan lost (formally), UK just kinda... yeah... USA was a big bully, and bullying is bad, and Canada's with the UK, and France got run over, run over again, then run over again (that's a lot of running over...).

Paul C

Random thoughts: the British contribution to WW2 has been likened to the progress of British clubs in the European Champion's League. (ie, real football involving eleven guys a side and a round ball). Before Manchester United met (and beat)a German side in the final, they had to beat a lot of Italian sides. So it was in WW2: the British Army for a long time wasn't good enough to defeat anything German, except for the odd fluke result (Battle of Arras in May 1940: one solitary win in a long retreat to Dunkirk. But since the defeated party was General Rommel, it gave him something to think about).

So we had to kick seven kinds of $hite out of the Italians first, just for practice and to get ready for the big one.

Even so, by middle 1941 the war could be said to be a score-draw: we'd kept the Germans from invading Britain purely and completely by our own efforts with extremely minimal American help. Should it be repeated that at this stage in the war we were still BUYING American equipment, cash up front, at market rates? Lease-Lend came later.

The German army in North Africa - actually it was 80% Italian - did not have the strength to conclusively beat us there, and an 80% Italian Army was a handicap rather than an asset to the Germans.

What we DIDN'T have was the strength to conclusively berat Germany out of our own resources. Our tanks were completely inferior to anything the Germans had and our army was nowhere near as well trained or well led - some of our generals were frankly not up to the job. (Before Americans crow at this, look up the neme "Fredenhall", who was America's first choice c-i-c before Eisenhower, and look up what a first-class job he did leading American troops into battle in Tunisia. Kasserine Pass, anyone? An American army totally destroyed and going into the German bag on its very first combat outing?)

(In fact, Britain's best general of WW2 never fought the Germans: Field-Marshal Slim's war was at the other end of the world, against the Japanese. You wonder what might have been different had Slim been in Europe and Montgomery in Asia)

So we held our own, on our own, and kept the Germans out in a purely defensive war (all we could fight): but to win, it needed America and you'll find we're happy to acknowledge this.

wayne rice

There's only one answer: the guy with the biggest stick and baddest attitude ALWAYS wins. That's us. The U.S.A. Not since Hiroshima and our bully Truman has anyone had a bigger stick or used it more brutally. We won: any questions?

Personally, I think we were/are the biggest losers in the world. Instead of leading with inspiration, instead of promoting tolerance, freedom of speech, and the free expression of ideas, and the notion of co-operation and negotiation, instead we have abandoned the vision of our forefathers of being "all created equal" and given some hardly-ever-mentioned God-given rights, and have instead been quite selfishly effective with the "my-stick-is-way-bigger-than-your-stick" approach to just about everything.
So here's another question: Who holds the world record for murdering the most innocent people in the least amount of time?
Answer: Truman. Who, in America, is considered a pretty good guy. Biggest murderer - pretty good guy - can a country be any more psychotic? Hmm, Germany in the late 30's comes to mind...

Noah Vaile

The USA got in the war "late" when "it was nearly over?"
Who are you kidding.
September 1939- the war basically begins. Britain and France are involved in both Europe and Asia.
June 1941- Russia enters the war as a victim.
December 1941, less than six months later the USA in drawn in. Prior to that FDR was supplying military equipment via lend-lease to Britain.

Yes, US corporations (with factories in Europe build and) sell trucks to Germany under license. Capitalism in action. They stop when the USA enters the war in Decemeber 1941.

Without the US industrial base the Russians would not have been able to prosecute the war as they did. All they could have done was absorb German bullets, as they did anyway. But that would have been about all they could have accomplished. Nobody fought on the (Western) European continent until Italy was invaded and the subsequent Normandy invasion and the US provided the bulk of those troops as well as the bulk of the forces in the Pacific. Not the British Empire or Commonwealth, not France not nobody.... Except the Russians in the East.

The Russian defeat of the Japanese? A powerful and highly mobile Russian far east army overran the relatively underarmed, poorly supplied and immobile Japanese forces. An easy task for the veterans of the German fronts.

Who won WW2? The USA did. We emerged as the premier military and economic power in the world. Europe (including Russia) was devastated, Japan conquered, China began a long road back to nationhood, India and all the "commonwealth" colonies began a road to national strength- but only the USA emerged as a true winner. Our lands unscathed, our industry grown and capable of providing both butter and guns to a world wracked by war. And the USA didn't take advantage of the position by enslaving but rather shared wealth to rebuild Europe. The USA won but shared the victory with everyone who would partake.

The losers?
Russia and Eastern Europe remained devastated and enslaved for years. Russia still is. China curled up and bled under Communist rule.
Japan and Germany- the apparent losers emerged as two of the great economic powers thanks to US help.

BJUK

Well as I remember my history...

Stalin had just decimated his army by murdering 45% of his officers (he was paranoid after all) and that's why he signed the pact (in 38/39 I think). This gave him the time to rebuild and his designers to build the best tank of the War. But Hitler failed in the East because of Yugoslavia! The resistance there held down 8-10 divisions. Had that not been the case the assult on Russia would have started about 8 weeks earlier and with massive force that the Rusians could not have countered (even by retreating and stretching the German supply lines - the same thing that worked against Napoleon). But for that Europe could have had a common language! Otherwise it plays out pretty much as other Brits explained with their posts.

Can't remember who said it, but the phrase is some thing like: The (european) war was won by three factors:

The Brits bought time (for Russia to re-arm)
The Russians paid in blood (2/3rd of casualties)
The Americans supplied the materials (Lend/lease and the rest)

And it was just a couple of months we finally paid our WWII bill to the US off!

Paul C

Hmm, let me see...

"Lease-Lend" (ie, apparently free military aid, although we've only just, in 2006, finished paying the bill for it)only started to happen after December 1941. Until then, Britain had been buying all its war kit from the USA at market prices. At the same time, subsidiary organisations like Ford of Germany and General motors (Deutchland) were quite happily building trucks, et c, flat-out for the German Armed Forces, while exporting the profit back to the USA.

So it's safe to say that in the opening years of WW2, the USA grew rich on the traditional time-honoured strategy of a neutral country on the sidelines of somebody else's war - by selling military equipment to both sides simultaneously...

We also remember that in 1940, the US Ambassador to Britain was a certain Joseph Kennedy, a venomous Irish-American with Nazi sympathies, who gleefully and regularly reported to Roosevelt that Britain was dead and it was only a matter of time before the Germans were in London. Thanks to Kennedy, the US Gov't could rule out doing anything other than sell us military equipment at full market prices, cash in advance, please...

Mad Hun

I am german.
If you look at the displaced persons statistics
in Germany the Russians won.

In prewar times the US financed Hitler (Vanevar Bush) during the war they supplied with glee
the other sides.
The moment they saw that their future market might go to the Russians they got personally involved.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not hasten the end of the War in Asia ( an offer of surrender had already been made ) but was an object lesson to
the USSR.

An interesting sideinfo I hit upon:
WWI would have petered out in 1916/17 due to exhaustion on all sides.
The ensuing truce would have left out all the elements that effectively lead to WWII.
Enter the US (main supplier, seeing there market go) leading to defeat and Versailles.

rkpior

Great discussion!

I'm from Poland. In my first classes (behind the iron curtin) they teached us that Poles and Soviets won the WW2 and German lost. And it was everything - there are some informatio about Aliants but it was only short info! In begining of 90's (after opening the curtins) I was in higher classes and the teaching of history become better. Pupils now where able to hear everything about Ribberntrop-Molotov act and the real Aliants and Nazis battles during WW2.

In the most of older people mind there is a "chip" inside that Poles and Soviets won the 100% of WW2. Unfortunately

Alexandra

To: Heynoni!

THANK YOU AMERICA, THE KEEPER OF WORLD PEACE!!!!!

It is not USA that had given itself the task of poliecing the world, or the name of 'world policing nation'. Not in the least. Little nations, like the one I had been born into, rely on the USA to behave exactly like this!!!!

My birthland had, in the past, been 'invaded' by the Americans. They were welcomed as liberators, peace bringers and saviours! They restored our democracy!!! They are still, more than 50 years later, revered and respected!!!! Thank you, from the bottom of my heart and soul!

(Our freedom was later subverted, but the combination of Mr. Regan and Ms. Thatcher, whose regard for what is RIGHT and wrong superseeded any politics and thus strenthened our patriot's resolve (they knew these two would never betray them and so dared to stand up to the oppressors)is the only thing that restored our freedom and democracy).

So, no, Heynoni, you are wrong!

The USA is the only country now strong enough to stand up to the 'bully countries' and help those who have been oppressed regain freedom - a birthright of every human!!!! Or are some people, as some might lead you to believe, not evolved enough to deserve freedom and democracy????? Dump those arrogant and bigoted bastards!!!

And it is, we, the people who have been liberated by the American forces, are the ones who have decided that the USA MUST be the only 'policing' nation: nobody else has the guts nor can be trusted to do this honestly!

So, thank you, America, for all that you have done for those of us who have been oppressed! DO NOT GIVE UP!!!! WITHOUT YOU, ALL OF US WILL BE MARTYRED!!!! And I certainly do not wish Martyrdom for my children....

I beg you not to give in to the 'Chamberlain' and 'Clinton' apologists! We need you, and WE NEED YOU NOW!!!!

Thanks to all your heroes and their families! I used to play in a hollow tree which had served as a hiding place for an American parachutist in WWII, who was murdered not far from that tree....and not a day goes by that I do not honour His memory, even if I never knew His name! If it were not for His sacrifice, and thousands like him, my children would never have had a chance to be born!

Thank you!!!!!

Do not give in and give up. PLEASE!!!!

The world neeeds you now more than ever before!

I know, I am often sarcastic, cynical and sceptical. But I have never been more earnest nor solemn....this is serious and our futures depend on it. I really believe this, though believe very few things in this life.

Please do NOT give up your role as the World's Police Force!!!! The rest of the world, however reluctantly, does rely on it, even if they do not appreciate it!!!

Alexandra

To: Heynoni!

THANK YOU AMERICA, THE KEEPER OF WORLD PEACE!!!!!

It is not USA that had given itself the task of poliecing the world, or the name of 'world policing nation'. Not in the least. Little nations, like the one I had been born into, rely on the USA to behave exactly like this!!!!

My birthland had, in the past, been 'invaded' by the Americans. They were welcomed as liberators, peace bringers and saviours! They restored our democracy!!! They are still, more than 50 years later, revered and respected!!!! Thank you, from the bottom of my heart and soul!

(Our freedom was later subverted, but the combination of Mr. Regan and Ms. Thatcher, whose regard for what is RIGHT and wrong superseeded any politics and thus strenthened our patriot's resolve (they knew these two would never betray them and so dared to stand up to the oppressors)is the only thing that restored our freedom and democracy).

So, no, Heynoni, you are wrong!

The USA is the only country now strong enough to stand up to the 'bully countries' and help those who have been oppressed regain freedom - a birthright of every human!!!! Or are some people, as some might lead you to believe, not evolved enough to deserve freedom and democracy????? Dump those arrogant and bigoted bastards!!!

And it is, we, the people who have been liberated by the American forces, are the ones who have decided that the USA MUST be the only 'policing' nation: nobody else has the guts nor can be trusted to do this honestly!

So, thank you, America, for all that you have done for those of us who have been oppressed! DO NOT GIVE UP!!!! WITHOUT YOU, ALL OF US WILL BE MARTYRED!!!! And I certainly do not wish Martyrdom for my children....

I beg you not to give in to the 'Chamberlain' and 'Clinton' apologists! We need you, and WE NEED YOU NOW!!!!

Thanks to all your heroes and their families! I used to play in a hollow tree which had served as a hiding place for an American parachutist in WWII, who was murdered not far from that tree....and not a day goes by that I do not honour His memory, even if I never knew His name! If it were not for His sacrifice, and thousands like him, my children would never have had a chance to be born!

Thank you!!!!!

Do not give in and give up. PLEASE!!!!

The world neeeds you now more than ever before!

I know, I am often sarcastic, cynical and sceptical. But I have never been more earnest nor solemn....this is serious and our futures depend on it. I really believe this, though believe very few things in this life.

Please do NOT give up your role as the World's Police Force!!!! The rest of the world, however reluctantly, does rely on it, even if they do not appreciate it!!!

Alexandra

OK, so I was born in a European country that had, actually, been PARTIALLY liberated from the Germans by the USA. When I was growing up, this country was communist - hence I live on the North American continent. However, I did go to school there and I did take history....and if you read between the lines, this description (UK was the plucky holdout, France was the unashamed collaborator, Austria was the entusiastic coat-tail rider, and the USA was the unmitigated saviour of all of us....Soviet troops, we could see for ourselves from the poor, sad, illiterate boys we all felt sorry for - but who were the instruments of our oppression (and whose future was bleak because they had been exposed to too much of a 'Western influence' by the virtue of their posting ro opress us) could be nothing more than cannon fodder....

So, yes, my education agrees with the 'US was the only thing that saved us all from world-wide third reich' view of history!!!

My grandfather had been ready to take up arms agains the Nazis, even got mobilized into a border-line bunker and spent a few weeks there - only to be ordered back home when the apologist British Chamberlain betrayed the whole world, as well as us, and deceived himself into thinking that negotiating with Hitler was the right thing to do. What a fool!

Do you know what it lead to?

When my mother was 3 years old, she saw a concentration camp group of prisoners marched past her house. One of the prisoners saw potato peelings in the ditch - and dove in to eat them. The guard had a stick with a nail coming out of the end of it. He beat the prisoner who tried to eat the potato peelings from the ditch to death...right in front of all the watching kids, my mom included. It is one of her earliest memories and haunts her to this day....

That is what happens when you negotiate with megalomaniacs....whether secular or religious!!!!

Not funny, is it......

I do NOT like what is happening in Iraq....perhaps no sane person does. But giving up, withdrawing the troops (or giving the enemies, whoever they might be, a schedule for when that will happen) is as evil as Chamberlain selling my grandfather and his country out! Perhaps worse, because we have an example within our living memory of what bully countries (and bully religious fanatics - they hate proper, moderate Muslims even more than they hate us and they know who they are and so target them even in North America - my cousin (by marriage) is one and she has received deathn threats for having married a non-Muslim!!!!) can and DO purpotrate.....

Did somebody not once write a song about it? "Do it in the name of Heaven, you cna justify it in the end!?!"

Stop joking about this and begin to think what it could become!!!!!!

evden eve nakliyat

very nice information thanks...

evden eve nakliyat

thanks very nice informations...

luzzio

I live in a Muslim country (Malaysia), and the high school history books pretty much don't say anything about who won WWWII.

Instead, it emphasizes more on "While the white devils waged a brutal and uncivilized war on each other, Malaysia reached it's independance by peace talks with England bla bla bla"

Which is technically true. But no one remembers negotiators =D It's the Rambos that get movie contracts and product sponsors.

nacho

Don't forget about that Pacific thing, and the North African thing, and some of the other fronts that we were fighting before and after we invaded Normandy.

Bigsmak

No one wins at WAR. People die, everyone loses.

I'm Scottish (Thats part of the UK, thats Britain) and we are taught history like this.

Hitler loved the British and wanted them to join him in his world domination plans. He never wanted to upset us. We took a stand and declared war on Germany after they invaded Poland because they promised not to. Bear in mind that they had already moved troops into the Rhineland (the terms set out after WW1 said they were not to do this) and then they invaded Chezislovakia. We didn't like this but let them keep the northen part (the now chezch republic) and the southern part stayed independant. This was good for Hitler as all the munitions factories were found in the north.

So - The UK started the war by declaring on Germany and this caused france and Oz to get involved etc. As for how it ended.,

France let Germany run over them. Italy changed sides about 8 times. USA didn't join in till very late. Russia had more troops than everyone else put together but it was something like 1 gun between 2 and 8 bullets each. Not great for a fight against well prepaired troops.

Hitler however thought that attacking the Allied forces on 2 fronts was a good idea. Any kid play strategio or www.globalcombat.com will tell you this is silly. So he split his forces.

While this was going on, japan went for america and pissed them off and the UK was building an airforce like no other.

So the USA joined and britian wiped out the German airforce.

We all landed in north france where tom hanks led some blokes to look for ryan and alls well that ended well.

Mostly, if hitler had apeased the russians, and concentrated all his forces attacking the UK and Japan hadn't got cocky. Europe would all be speaking German right now.

The USA entered late but were welcomed and the Bomb sorted it all out!

the end!

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